Finishing recommendations for a newbie?

[MKlee]

I've been reading a LOT on this forum about finishing techniques ... and I'm totally confused on which way to go. I know this is a loaded question, but does anybody have a standard recommendation for new guitar builders as to the best procedure for finishing? Here is what I have and my experience:

Rosewood sides and back
Sitka spruce top
mahogany neck
ebony fingerboard
Rosewood headstock

I have a little experience with finishing furniture and I have a cheap spray gun but I have NO idea where to start with the finishing of my guitar. The Behlen guitar finishing procedure and kit look tempting ... do you think this has a great result? My initial thought was to do something brushed on .. but the forum posts seem to indicate spraying with cans might be better than a brushed on finish. At Woodcraft today, it was highly recommended that a french polish would require too much maintenance. Anyway, just looking for thoughts on where to start with the finish.

Thanks,
Mark

[tippie53]

Finishing is about prep and technique . Then you have gloss , stain , matt finishes . You have real health concerns about nitro , so you need an area with good ventilation and NO SPARKS .
Satin finishes are forgiving as it won't show flaws , Gloss will show every flaw on the wood . Matt is also forgiving.
You have Nitro and water based lacquers . These can be sprayed or brushed on.
French polish is a rubbed finish and is a nice way to go.
I do recommend , if you have an area for nitro and you are familiar with spray equipment to go that rout , but you can buy the finish kits , both Stew Mac and Grizzly have them . Don't mix manufacturers products if possible . Gloss finishes will require wet sanding and buffing .
French polished use flake shellac and everclear alcohol .
This may be a lot of info to absorb so do a little research and I am sure others will add to the advice.
One more thing . Do not over sand the body. In most cases 220 is as fine as you need to go. Much finer than that and you can have adhesion issues later.
You need to look at these finish techniques
Staining
Sealing ( I do not use shellac with lacquer but I do use the manufacturers suggest sealer )
Filling ( I use natural pore o paq ) brand and stain it for my application )
Seal
then apply finish . ( you want to achieve .016 to . 020 )
allow cure for nitro
level sand ( start with 400 cut to 1/2 orange peel , 600 to just clear of the bottom . 800 to touch off the bottom and level off . )
3 thinned coats for the finish top coat . Wet sand starting with 800 and ending at 2000
buff and polish

[deadedith]

John - does your recommendation not to sand past 220 apply to all finishes?
DaveB

[MKlee]

I definitely want to go with a high gloss finish, I know that. I think the only staining I want to do is on the neck ... isn't this what Martin does? Assuming so, does anybody have a recommended color?

Also, I started looking at pore fillers and the immediate question that came up was color ... it was indicated that I'd need to tint the filler b/c most were naturally white ... again, and recommendations on pore color would be appreciated. I was thinking that it would be clear and not show through the finish but apparently this is not true, I was hoping for a natural wood color.

Again, my desire on my first guitar is to make it look as much like a Martin as possible. Their finishes are unbelievable but I'm willing to put in the work to get as close as possible.

I also realize that without great spraying equipment and setup It's not feasible to get quite the finish Martin does. Would you recommend the kit "rattle can" spray over hand finishing?

Thanks for you input John.

[kencierp]

OK there is no "silver bullet" guitar finishing system. All the good systems, Mohawk, Sherwinn Williams, Deft, Watco, Behlens, Pratt lambert, Minwax, Target, etc. are based on all the components being compatible --- compatibility is the key. Now the question asked was will such and such produce a great finish -- the answer is "yes" -- if it applied corectly, cured correctly, leveled correctly, polished and rubbed out correctly. So its really a matter of honing a few skills -- Like anything else "if you don't know what you are doing" -- the results will look like "you did not know what you were doing."

I recommend praticing on similar materials, including the timing for cure and rub out -- using the entire finishing system planned for the guitar.

John's guideline will work just fine for nitro, Kenny Hill has a great French Polish YouTube series, Ken Casper here at the forum posted his method for Target Water base and I believe he is featured in a Target advertisement. DaveH here at the forum was a finishing instructor for, I believe Rockler -- uses Behlens. ReRanch has a nice finishing website they have all the renamed Mcfadden products as well.

Tru-oil has also been priased for its excellent appreance and ease of application, Kinkade uses Tru-oil on their high line guitars.

As for spray gun or rattle cans -- some one has said its not what you use to apply the chemical but rather want material is left on the surface that makes for a "great finish." I will now always use rattle cans -- for me it just simplifies the whole process, and who really enjoys cleaning spray equipment?

Matters not, nitro, shellac, poly, varnish, water borne, polyester -- No magic fairy dust -- just a learning curve and a lot of patience.

If you use someone's one off method or material list -- plan on being doomed to failure. $.02

[JRHall]

As john has told me in the past, it's not what you put on, it's what you leave on.
You can get a beautiful finish by brushing on a finish if you have the arms and patience to level it by sanding after the finish hardens.

[David L]

No magic fairy dust? Rats!

David L

[MKlee]

Okay, let me ask it another way ... if YOU were in my shoes (new guitar builder, lots of woodworking experience, my parts and desired finishes listed above) which system would YOU choose? I also prefer to stick with ONE manufacturer and their system (as most have recommended here) - looks like Behlen has a pretty good system specifically designed for guitars.

I love to hear Ken saying he'll always use rattle cans - I HATE the setup and cleanup of spray equipment which is why I don't want to use it for this one.

Mark

[kencierp]

The Behlens system has been used for many years, if you want to save a few bucks Watco or Deft can be used for the finish coats. IHO it is a mistake to try and stain a first guitar -- just go natural. Just a heads up, plan on as many as three apps of paste pore filler -- even then tiny detents will still be visible. As you apply MANY layers of finish and do some leveling the detents will finally disappear. OH and forget the "crap" about keeping the finish thin, for sure don't glop it on the sound board -- but for Rosewood you need a lot of material to level properly --- finally --actually first and foremost, if the surface is not prep until it is defect free - count on the defects jumping right at you under the finish. Top coats hide nothing and actually amplify the flaws.

[Ben-Had]

I use System 3's SB-112 for pore filler, silica to thicken (it's a clear epoxy), Mohawk nitro or Target 1000/6000 combo on the body (when I'm done with the nitro I think I'll be done with nitro, no booth = too much trouble spraying) and Tru-Oil on the neck (I like the feel).

And that's my 2 cents.

Tim B