Wilborn Guitar Attempt
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Kevin Sjostrand
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
- Location: Visalia, CA
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Ha. That must be cause I'm tall! 🤓
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scamp
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Started to think about how to rout the neck heal with tenon and the extension of the neck over the body at the proper angle and depth. I included a picture of what it's supposed to look like on a actual Nautilus Wiborn guitar below.
To make the complete neck for this guitar , you need to keep the neck heal with the tenon separate from the rest of the neck until you get the proper angles on both the neck heal and the portion of the neck that extends over the body. When everything is perfect you screw/glue them together.
For the neck heal with the tenon i realized I could just attach a sacrificial neck piece of wood to the heal to mimic a more traditional neck and rout it using the LMI neck alignment jig I already had. It's easy to dial in the angle and depth. But how to rout the proper angle and depth of the portion of the neck over the body ? After some thought I realized I could use the same LMI jig and make an adapter that would hold the neck at a right angle to the jig that would allow me to do it. See below.
Seems like 70% of the work for this guitar is building jigs.
To make the complete neck for this guitar , you need to keep the neck heal with the tenon separate from the rest of the neck until you get the proper angles on both the neck heal and the portion of the neck that extends over the body. When everything is perfect you screw/glue them together.
For the neck heal with the tenon i realized I could just attach a sacrificial neck piece of wood to the heal to mimic a more traditional neck and rout it using the LMI neck alignment jig I already had. It's easy to dial in the angle and depth. But how to rout the proper angle and depth of the portion of the neck over the body ? After some thought I realized I could use the same LMI jig and make an adapter that would hold the neck at a right angle to the jig that would allow me to do it. See below.
Seems like 70% of the work for this guitar is building jigs.
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scamp
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
In anticipation of putting the guitar body together I realized that alignment of the neck block with the rest of the body is critical in order to get the edge of the fret board properly aligned with the edge of the Florentine cut away. Took a look at how Ben puts his guitars together ( pictures he posts on his web site ) and he basically assembles the whole body at once by extending the edges of the mold so it can be used as a caul to glue the neck and tail blocks with the sides as well as the tip of the Florentine peak. ( see picture ). So... I decided to do it his way and make mold extensions out of MDF so I could do the same thing . I will attach them to the mold once I get to that point.
Also... inserted the fret dots. Went well. I'm always concerned I will put them in the wrong fret location or the wrong side. This time it appears I dodged that bullet.
Also... inserted the fret dots. Went well. I'm always concerned I will put them in the wrong fret location or the wrong side. This time it appears I dodged that bullet.
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Last edited by scamp on Fri Mar 14, 2025 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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scamp
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Fret Dots 1.JPEG
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scamp
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
I made a few mistakes so I thought I would share as it seems the mistakes are a more important learning experience in most cases.
#1 I ordered a truss rod for a 14 fret steal string guitar ( which this is ) and it's total length is 15 inches including the hex nut connection. Given the unique structure of this guitar the adjustment must be in the headstock. Once I received it and laid it out it became apparent that the end of the rod would go beyond the 14 fret. With this design, that means it would need to go into the portion of the neck over the sound board. Unfortunately, it's not clear there is enough material in the neck beyond the 14th fret. Took a close look at Ben's necks and his truss rods end at about the 13th fret which means they are really rods designed for 12 fret guitars. So... need to return what I have and try again.
#2 Tried to bend the ebony veneer backstrapping to match the 1.5 inch radius volute I created. I made the headstock so with a 2 mm backstrap veneer and a 2 mm front veneer it would be 15 mm. So... I thinned the backstrap ebony to 2 mm and tried to bend it. No way would it bend on my iron. Got a little bend but not enough. Tried everything ( windex.. higher temp etc.) Eventually it started cracking. So I decided that I would flatten the veneer with an iron, fix the cracks with CA glue and dust and thin it down to 1 mm and try bending it. To keep the total backstrap thickness 2mm I would just sandwich in a green and black purfling layer, each 0.5 mm. Tried to bend the ebony at 1 mm and still wouldn't bend at all. Just about to give up when I tried to bend the other end of the ebony ( the side I never tried to bend ) and sure enough no problem. Bent fine. Only conclusion is that I dried out the ebony trying to bend it the first time at 2mm thickness. After that, it just won't bend, even at 1 mm.
Lessons learned.
As far as it would bend at 2mm
Finally bent at 1 mm
#1 I ordered a truss rod for a 14 fret steal string guitar ( which this is ) and it's total length is 15 inches including the hex nut connection. Given the unique structure of this guitar the adjustment must be in the headstock. Once I received it and laid it out it became apparent that the end of the rod would go beyond the 14 fret. With this design, that means it would need to go into the portion of the neck over the sound board. Unfortunately, it's not clear there is enough material in the neck beyond the 14th fret. Took a close look at Ben's necks and his truss rods end at about the 13th fret which means they are really rods designed for 12 fret guitars. So... need to return what I have and try again.
#2 Tried to bend the ebony veneer backstrapping to match the 1.5 inch radius volute I created. I made the headstock so with a 2 mm backstrap veneer and a 2 mm front veneer it would be 15 mm. So... I thinned the backstrap ebony to 2 mm and tried to bend it. No way would it bend on my iron. Got a little bend but not enough. Tried everything ( windex.. higher temp etc.) Eventually it started cracking. So I decided that I would flatten the veneer with an iron, fix the cracks with CA glue and dust and thin it down to 1 mm and try bending it. To keep the total backstrap thickness 2mm I would just sandwich in a green and black purfling layer, each 0.5 mm. Tried to bend the ebony at 1 mm and still wouldn't bend at all. Just about to give up when I tried to bend the other end of the ebony ( the side I never tried to bend ) and sure enough no problem. Bent fine. Only conclusion is that I dried out the ebony trying to bend it the first time at 2mm thickness. After that, it just won't bend, even at 1 mm.
Lessons learned.
As far as it would bend at 2mm
Finally bent at 1 mm
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scamp
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Started working on making the Bindings and Purfling.
Glued the Turquoise veneer to the black fiber and cut it into strips for the purfling.
Glued some of the purfling strips to the ebony bindings to make the side binding/purfling strips using a gazillion clips. Covered the end of the clips with packaging tape so they didn't get glued to the purfling by accident. Used Clear Gorilla glue as recommended to me by Jeff Jewitt ( used it once before and it worked well ). Positives of using this glue is it can withstand higher temperatures and it dries crystal clear so no seams. Negatives are it is difficult to wipe off excess ( not water soluble ) and when dry is a bit rubbery which makes it hard to remove.
The purfling glued to the bindings is wider than the bindings by a small amount so a lot of scraping to get the finished bindings.
Glued the Turquoise veneer to the black fiber and cut it into strips for the purfling.
Glued some of the purfling strips to the ebony bindings to make the side binding/purfling strips using a gazillion clips. Covered the end of the clips with packaging tape so they didn't get glued to the purfling by accident. Used Clear Gorilla glue as recommended to me by Jeff Jewitt ( used it once before and it worked well ). Positives of using this glue is it can withstand higher temperatures and it dries crystal clear so no seams. Negatives are it is difficult to wipe off excess ( not water soluble ) and when dry is a bit rubbery which makes it hard to remove.
The purfling glued to the bindings is wider than the bindings by a small amount so a lot of scraping to get the finished bindings.
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Kevin Sjostrand
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
- Location: Visalia, CA
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Nice work. They look good.
That's how I do mine only I use CA glue. I just wick in between the clips, let dry,(accelerator), remove the clips and wick in the remaining areas. Just a little care and you'll not glue the clips to the binding and you dont have to fiddle with the glue while trying to put it all together.
And, the CA will hold up in the bending machine.
Try it next time I think you'll like it.
That's how I do mine only I use CA glue. I just wick in between the clips, let dry,(accelerator), remove the clips and wick in the remaining areas. Just a little care and you'll not glue the clips to the binding and you dont have to fiddle with the glue while trying to put it all together.
And, the CA will hold up in the bending machine.
Try it next time I think you'll like it.
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scamp
- Posts: 326
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Thanks KevinKevin Sjostrand wrote: ↑Tue Mar 18, 2025 9:59 pm Nice work. They look good.
That's how I do mine only I use CA glue. I just wick in between the clips, let dry,(accelerator), remove the clips and wick in the remaining areas. Just a little care and you'll not glue the clips to the binding and you dont have to fiddle with the glue while trying to put it all together.
And, the CA will hold up in the bending machine.
Try it next time I think you'll like it.
I was debating between using CA and Clear Gorilla glue. My concern was the joint failing under the heat of bending the bindings. I used the Clear Gorilla glue before and it worked so I stuck with it.
Unfortunately none of the glues are really specified to work up to typical max bending temperatures. Clear Gorilla glue is spec'ed to "hold strong" up to 200 F . Titebond original melts at only 150 F for example. Interestingly, Titebond III, which some people use because of the heat is also only good up to 150 F. I think typical CA holds up to about 180 F which is good but from what is read is more brittle. Anyway... sounds like your experience is it works so I may try it next time. It certainly would be less messy.
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Kevin Sjostrand
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
- Location: Visalia, CA
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
Makes one wonder when we purchase binding with purfling attached what adhesive was used when it was made?? Would be good to know huh.
I used Titebond 3 before and it worked for me, original Titebond did not for this purpose. Epoxy probably would work. Would be messy for sure.
Do what works for you for sure! Bend it and see. If it works I may try the Gorilla.
I used Titebond 3 before and it worked for me, original Titebond did not for this purpose. Epoxy probably would work. Would be messy for sure.
Do what works for you for sure! Bend it and see. If it works I may try the Gorilla.
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Stray Feathers
- Posts: 758
- Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:39 pm
- Location: Ladysmith, BC
Re: Wilborn Guitar Attempt
I've only used different Titebond formulas for laminating. I had some failures which I thought were because of heat and moisture, so I tried T3 which is waterproof, and it seems to be the best. Heat may soften glue, but will it necessarily let go? I usually wrap my laminated bindings together to help hold everything in place in the bender. I have also seen commercial purflings delaminate in the bender (also pipe bending for rosette rings), so whatever glue is used by some of the manufacturers is not failure proof. Bruce W.