Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

The Achilles' Heel of Luthiery
G650Driver
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:16 pm
Location: Mount Ulla, North Carolina

Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by G650Driver »

Hello fellow luthiers
Like many of you, I have been finishing my guitars with Tru Oil. I decided to step into the spray application world and purchased a Fuji Q3 Platinum with a 9600 GXPC gun. Added the Fuji 1.mm needle/cap set and a whip hose. I know there's a learning curve, but I am so discouraged with this system that I want to go back to what I know...hand finishing. I cannot for the life of me get a smooth application of finish.

I realize that the problem is likely with me and not the Fuji system. Many of you love the Fuji system, so any advise for correcting my issues would be greatly appreciated. Here is my process and the issues...

Using 1.0mm Cap set
Shop Temp 70-75 F
Very little thinning of product
Mohawk Instrument Vinyl Sealer
Pore Fill with Aqua Coat
Mohawk Vinyl sealer again
Mohawk Instrument Lacquer (Note: before lacquer I have the guitar surface in pristine condition)

Neither the Vinyl Sealer nor the Lacquer lay smooth. I get either a sandpaper finish or I get orange peel. Attempting to "dial in" the Fuji system with adjustments in the air flow or product flow render at one end of the spectrum a sandpaper feel, and at the other end of the spectrum an orange peel, but never a smooth finish. I have tried shooting product straight, I’ve tried thinning. Nothing is working. What am I missing???

Thanks to all,
Mark M
NC
tippie53
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Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by tippie53 »

this is typical you will have to level sand and polish lacquer. Can you post pictures and send a PM I can send a phone # and you can call me.
Nitro will lay but to get that high shine it takes some work
I allow 2 weeks of cure time. Then level sand with grits up to 3000 then buff
I like the dual action hand buffing I also use a buffing wheel
The hand buffer with car buffing and detail polishes will get you a beauty of a shine.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
G650Driver
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:16 pm
Location: Mount Ulla, North Carolina

Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by G650Driver »

I basically use the same post finishing procedure as you John. A few weeks after finishing I sand up to 5,000 then go to the buffing wheel. I've used rattle can lacquer from SM and it lays as smooth as glass. I know this is likely my problem not the Fuji system, I've just get to get things dialed in.

Here are a couple of (low res phone pics... sorry) that I grabbed.
Bear in mind that these pics are after the product has done its settling and drying. It's much worse when wet.
The light ray in the top pic is the orange peel I'm getting when I have a good product flow going on.
The bottom pic shows the sandpaper lay I getting when I dial back the product flow a bit.
I can't seem hit the middle ground anywhere.

Thanks for all the tips you provide on this forum and YT John!

Image
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TEETERFAN
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Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by TEETERFAN »

I am curious how the finish looks on the tape. My thought is if the finish on the tape looks good, then you know it is related to the previous layers of the guitar’s finish. If the taped areas are “orange pealing”, I would play with the thinning ratio and amount of material applied at a time. Shop temp should be workable.
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
G650Driver
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Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by G650Driver »

Very interesting point Kevin. My initial suspicion was the same as yours; compatibility. But I dismissed that for a couple of reasons. The Mohawk instrument vinyl sealer is what the Mohawk instrument lacquer is being sprayed over. As you know those two products play well together and are widely used together. Also, I shot the product onto scrap pieces of wood prior to shooting the guitar. It laid exactly the same way on the scrap. I know... "then why did you shoot the guitar"? Because I thought I'd just sand it level. I didn't realize the amount of work required to level the lacquer with that rough of a surface. Man, is that a lot of work. And it is unnecessary.) I understand that there is always post application level sanding to be done but I should be able to get a decent starting point and a somewhat smooth finish applied from the gun.

I reached out to Fuji support as well. Here's what I got from them...

"Thank you for reaching out to us.
​There are a couple of things you can try out.

Remedy for the gritty finish -
-Increase material flow
-Spray at the 6 to 8 inch distance
-Slow down the speed of your pass

​Remedy for the orange peel -
-Reduce the material volume flow
-Increase speed of pass
-VERY LAST RESORT - Introduction of small quantity of retarder (to slow down drying time)

We hope these suggestions help, in some cases a combination of a couple or just one alone works just fine."


As always, this forum is such a great place to exchange information, so thank you.
Stray Feathers
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Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by Stray Feathers »

I've been using a Fuji system myself, bought used from a friend who used it professionally, Mini Mite 3 with XPC series gun, and a 1.0 mm nozzle I ordered. I'm using the same range of Mohawk products (except I have not tried Aqua-coat yet, but will soon). Like you I can't seem to lay smooth coats, mostly there is some orange peel. Oddly, though, I often get a glossy coat when doing the neck, don't know why. I follow John Hall's guidelines, and assume it is mostly experience I am lacking. I spend a lot of time sanding and polishing, too. I think I might get smoother coats if I laid it on a little heavier, but I don't have a system to rotate the guitar to keep the drips and curtains from happening. I previously used an inexpensive Earlex Spray Station with a water-based finish, and had similar issues, maybe worse. I do like the lacquer but don't yet have the control of it I would like to have. Bruce W.
TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by TEETERFAN »

I always end up sanding quite a bit. Here’s a Jazzmaster I refinished. Now, the acoustic liability of a thick finish was not a concern with a solidbody, so I started with a fair amount of material. You can see the orange peal before I sanded it. I am conservative with my grits. After 3 weeks drying minimum, I start with 1000, then 1500, 2000, 3000. I wet sand with a little soapy water and small plastic block (casino dice work great). Be super careful near and on any edge!
An acoustic instrument is a tightrope walk between having enough finish to work down/buff and too much that effects the sound. John has posted lots if info on finish thickness and judging how much you have actually applied.
Good luck!
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Kevin Doty
Kansas City
G650Driver
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:16 pm
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Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by G650Driver »

Bruce, we'll just have to keep trying. I have been finishing by hand for years. To be sure, my spray finish experience is lacking so I'm thinking it's me and not the equipment. But I'll tell you this... I've had very impressive results from SM rattle can lacquer. I've finished furniture with Minwax rattle can and it was impressive too. Nearly glass smooth before sanding and leveling. I can't even get close with the Fuji. Way too much leveling work involved. I just refuse to believe that is normal. For now I'll still chalk this up to my inexperience with the Fuji system. I know it is a very popular system among wood workers and cabinet makers. There's a learning curve. I'm going to try some different things and I'll get back to this thread with the results.

Kevin, I see that orange peel in your first pic. Man did you ever get that level and smooth! Your end result is amazing. Nice work!

Thanks everyone. Any feedback is welcome.

Mark M.
NC
P R D
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:19 am

Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by P R D »

Do you think using a 1.3 mm nozzle would improve the the coating for lacquer?

Paul
tippie53
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Re: Fuji Q3 Platinum Frustration

Post by tippie53 »

I have both the 1.0 and 1.3
1.3 is a good choice for clear finish. the 1.0 is also ok but you have to get closed and thin more for finishing.

We had a good chat this morning and I am sure you will see better results.

post pics we are always here to help. These kind of posts are very helpful , you learn more from these posts with issues then perfection
sometime you knowing what not to do is more important than knowing what to do.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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