Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
CA as a grain filler sure looked promising. Have there been any modifications to the process that have given good consistent results?
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
I found that while CA as a filler seemed like a great idea there are issues. One of them is that CA is hard and finishes tend to loose adhesion over time. I stopped using it and went back to traditional fillers.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
Shellac over the ca would not help?
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
Some finishes may stick to CA better than others. John, was your lacquer adjacent to the CA or was it your sealer? I haven't yet used CA as a filler but it sounds interesting and I would like to try it someday.
Slacker......
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
we tried it both ways . It seems that the chemical bond is the weak point. The best results came using acetone and fogging the ca and hitting it with a thinned sealer coat to get a melt in , as the acetone helped to bond the sealer. The fact is the CA is hard and isn't flexible.
Lets face it , it is an adhesive and not a true finish product. The results on a few experiments looked promising but the long term is where the issues occur . Without a burn into the ca the finish floats on the surface then peels. CA onto the lacquer works as it can burn into the lacquer but not so much the other way.
At this point I went back to my tried and true methods . We need a good chemist and finish engineer to work out the issues.
Lets face it , it is an adhesive and not a true finish product. The results on a few experiments looked promising but the long term is where the issues occur . Without a burn into the ca the finish floats on the surface then peels. CA onto the lacquer works as it can burn into the lacquer but not so much the other way.
At this point I went back to my tried and true methods . We need a good chemist and finish engineer to work out the issues.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
In my opinion, to stand a chance at working long term, you would need to use the CA as the sealer as well as filler. You would need to leave a thin coat everywhere and then sand to create a mechanical bond. As John Mentioned though the lack of flexibility will most likely cause problems, I would expect it to craze in a few years. Not to mention I can't even imagine the fumes from doing so......Makes true epoxies and conversion systems sound like fresh air.
You never know what you are capable of until you actually try....
Brian Howard
www.brianhowardguitars.com
Taylor authorized service
Custom finishing services
Brian howard's guitar building & repair blog
http://www.brianhowardguitars.com
Brian Howard
www.brianhowardguitars.com
Taylor authorized service
Custom finishing services
Brian howard's guitar building & repair blog
http://www.brianhowardguitars.com
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
I tend to end up with a mess using CA even if the quantity is from a pipette. I do use CA as a spot filler, inlays, and crack repair, but I can not even imagine using enough to fill the pores on a guitar. I think I would endup with the guitar glued to my hand.
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
<smile>........and then there is that possibility.......
Slacker......
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
I stopped doing my own finishes a few years ago. Not because I can't do it but I don't have the time to do it anymore. I will do my own touch ups but anyone that is doing or thinking of doing finishes you need to know the chemistry of the finish and the proper techniques.
CA looked good but often what looks good today may not look good down the road. I can tell you that the key to a good finish is all about the prep. I am a fan of Nitro and always will be , but not every one has that capability. There are many finishes out there that you can do that are safer than Nitro.
Follow the manufacturers recommendations on sealers and fillers. Compatibility issues on finishes often may not show for a few years. If it were easy everyone could do it. Finish is the one thing that can take an average guitar and make it look above average.
CA looked good but often what looks good today may not look good down the road. I can tell you that the key to a good finish is all about the prep. I am a fan of Nitro and always will be , but not every one has that capability. There are many finishes out there that you can do that are safer than Nitro.
Follow the manufacturers recommendations on sealers and fillers. Compatibility issues on finishes often may not show for a few years. If it were easy everyone could do it. Finish is the one thing that can take an average guitar and make it look above average.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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Re: Is the jury still out on CA as a grain filler?
I have been using medium strength Starbond CA as a pore filler for the past five years. I shellac the back and sides and then, using a paper towel, wipe the glue on the surface. It stinks so I leave the room for 30 minutes or so and then sand it back to bare wood leaving only the pores filled. I then shellac the guitar again and lightly sand back with 320 grit paper. At that point the guitar is ready for final finishing.
I have had no problems at all with this method.
I have had no problems at all with this method.
Sylvan Wells
Wells Guitars
Bay State Guitars
http://www.wellsguitars.com
http://www.baystateguitars.com
Wells Guitars
Bay State Guitars
http://www.wellsguitars.com
http://www.baystateguitars.com