Brite Tone Waterbase Finish

[Bob Gleason]

Anyone here successfully, and by that I mean getting a good guitar finish, with Brite Tone waterbase? I have been spraying nitro for over 40 years and am trying to change what I can to waterbase. Tried EM6000, but did not like it. Brite Tone is better, but having a lot of issues with getting it to atomize without bubbles. It is a completely different animal than nitro. Just curious if there is any experience related to waterbase finish success on this forum. I have been spraying test panels everyday for the past couple of weeks. I have good days and bad days, but no great days yet. I spray over a CA porefill onto koa panels.Thanks, Bob

[Skarsaune]

I’ve not sprayed Brite Tone yet, just brushed. It self levels great, but will also run like crazy.

There’s a group on FB, Instrument Finishing With Crystalac, where a lot of folks post their methods and successes. The folks at Crystalac also respond to posts on there.

Not sure if you’re using their reducer, but I know that’s been one of the tips for spraying.

My main tip is, it has to cure for weeks before final sanding. Like 4 at least.

[Stray Feathers]

Bob, I can offer some insight, but not much. I finished my first two guitars with Brite-tone. (Threads on the forum somewhere.) They turned out pretty well in the end. But I was an absolute beginner at spraying, and I had bought an inexpensive Earlex HVLP sprayer. It was an agonizing process, but as you can imagine, not entirely because of Brite-tone. The guitars looked pretty good, but perhaps not for someone with your experience. I've been using lacquer since then, with a Fuji sprayer, and still barely know what I am doing. When I finish two current instruments, I have a Yamaki to spray which I put a new top, fretboard and bridge on, and because it was not originally lacquer I need to use a water-based finish, and I have wanted to try the Brite-tone again with the better Fuji sprayer, and a little more experience. I also have a new ukulele to do and will try Brite-tone on that too. I can let you know how things go but you probably are way ahead of me anyway. I don't know if you have seen this - a luthier named Tad Brown posted his process with Brite-tone - he is a big fan:

https://brown.guitars/about/workshop/cr ... -schedule/

One of the pluses with Brite-tone is that it does not impart a blue cast to the finish like some other waterborne finishes. Brown (and others) say it "burns" into the coat below, like lacquer, but I am not sure of that, and will check when I use it in the next month or so. And I am very interested to hear what you and others find when you use it. Bruce W.

[Bob Gleason]

Stray Feathers- Thanks for the reply. I have seen Tad's site and I have a print out of it on my bench. I have 2 Fuji Turbine HVLP gravity guns and have absolutely no luck using them for the Brite Tone. This is another lutherie black hole. I bought a $35.00 HVLP Compressed air gun on Amazon and it is outpeforming my expensive Fuji guns. There are so many variables to spraying that I'm still very much in the investigation stage. I learn more everyday and there is just enough improvement in the finish that I remain hopeful. I still have despondent days. Lacquer is a breeze compared to waterbase. I'll try to add info as I learn more. In the meantime, I joined the FB Crystal Lac group mentioned earlier in this thread. I personally don't usually participate in FB, but this group seems worthwhile. Good luck!-Bob

[tippie53]

I have had good luck with emtech
changed to a 1.7 needle have also used a foam brush

still takes cure time
what issues did you have?

[Bob Gleason]

John- Only a few issues like:

What is the best gun to spray with HVLP turbine or HVLP compressed air? Interestingly my cheapest junk gun does the best job so far.

Settings on the gun

How to treat sanding of the wood and to what grit?

How to deal with sanding of the finish itself during the spray process. Grits, sanding wait times after spraying?

How much to thin?

What size needle and tip in which of my guns?

How temp and humidity affect the process?
.
Wait time between coats

Wait time to final sand and buff?

How to avoid bubbles, though they mostly go away on their own?

How good the pore fill has to be?

Best pore filler for waterbase? I use CA

How to keep from sanding through the finish because that really shows with this stuff. Anyplace the waterbase touches bare wood, the color of the wood in that spot will look washed out.

Whether to incorporate shellac coats after the pore fill?

How many total coats to safely level sand?

Lacquer is a breeze, and so forgiving that it takes little experience to get decent results. I'm finding that 45 years of experience with nitro does not transfer that well to waterbase. Having fun though! Throwing lots of shop time and $ at this.-Bob

So, not too many issues. Hope you are doing great

[Bob Gleason]

I have been following the FB forum on Crystal Lac that was mentioned in an earlier post in this thread. It seems like a good place to go with questions about Crystal Lac

[tippie53]

14:45
Contact: Contact Bob Gleason

Re: Brite Tone Waterbase Finish

Unread post by Bob Gleason » 21 Aug 2024 01:37
John- Only a few issues like:

What is the best gun to spray with HVLP turbine or HVLP compressed air? Interestingly my cheapest junk gun does the best job so far.

Settings on the gun
I liked a fist size pattern 1.7mm needed tood feed needle all the way into the cone brought back about a turn or 2 using under 20 psi figured about 9 in away from the guitar heated to 90F

How to treat sanding of the wood and to what grit?
sanded to 180 wet and sanded again then seal with 1lb cut shellac let dry ( 25 min aqua coat 2 to 3 applications) seal heat up body and finish to 90F spray enough to get a good .010 coverage to .015 let dry 2 weeks
level off with 400 600 go to assilex once you just about thougth peel

How to deal with sanding of the finish itself during the spray process. Grits, sanding wait times after spraying?
assilex paper

How much to thin?
heat helped to lower viscosity

What size needle and tip in which of my guns? 1.7mm

How temp and humidity affect the process? I don't have RH issues I have dehumidifiers and AC
.
Wait time between coats did about an hour

Wait time to final sand and buff? 2 weeks

How to avoid bubbles, though they mostly go away on their own? I rotate my body as I spray and use 20 psi staying about 9 in away use just enough air to atomize well so you may have to adjust the feed to match your gun , I Use a devilbiss sri pro

How good the pore fill has to be? as good as you can , the flatter the better , this is why I like aqua coat it dries clear I do usually 3 applications I use a 3 inch squeege about the size of a Credit card ( on amazon ) I do 2 coats about 1 1/2 hr apart level sand after the 2nd coat then 3rd let set 4 hr level sand with 320 and 400 then seal then spray if you can thin the first 2 coats , the last few without. I tape under the extension and can pull every 2 coats , to get a feel for build. then shoot for .010 to .015 that should let you finish out with about .006 to .008 finish. buff and polish

Best pore filler for waterbase? I use CA Aqua coat is my go to

[Bob Gleason]

John- Thanks for the info on your process.We do things quite differently. I'll incorporate some of your ideas and see what can work for me. I used AquaCoat for years, but have almost given it up for CA fill. CA is working better for me at the moment. -Bob

[tippie53]

I tried ca a few times but had adhesion issues but to think about that I was using vinyl sealer not shellac I may have to revisit that