SM violin varnish?

[grouper]

I am looking for a wipe on finish as I will not be spraying. Stewart Mc has a violin varnish whose ingredients show it to be additives for shellac. So in realitly it is not varnish. Shellac seems like a good option but what about the additives? The Sandrac would make the finish harder but in my experience using it shellac is hard. I dont know what the Gum Mastic would do but since this is a recipee for violins would it be good for guitars or would just shellac be better?
I dont want to tru oil or varnish and hand applying laquer Im sure is out of the question. Ive never had a good thought about Poly as it makes me think plastic. That cant be good for a guitar car it?
Anyway the question is about violin finish.

[deadedith]

I don't know about the violin varnish, but I have a book that describes padding-on lacquer, so you might want to look into that.
DaveB

[johnnparchem]

I have used violin varnish on violins. It seems soft and heavy for a guitar. A violin has so much energy going into it, a bit of dampening is ok. I have used qualasol as a padding finish and have liked it.

[grouper]

Thanks, I Googled Qualasole and read awhile. It is similiar in application and appearance to padded shellac but it is laquer. That being the case the fumes are more dangerous. Doesnt seem to be better than shellac so I not interested in that.
I am glad to see the response that violin finishes are not good for guitars so I will abandon the idea of improving shellac and maybe just stick whith that.
I have used the Minwax products on woodworking projects and they are great but plastic sheathing a guitar in counterintuitive to me. I would like to know about the reality of that so I will try a new thread re that.

[kencierp]

I am not sure how you concluded that varnish is not a good finish for guitars -- not popular for sure, but master craftsman around the world do use varnish on very, very high priced guitars as an example

http://www.velazquezguitars.com/velazqu ... lcome.html

Velazquez and Sons use "Pratt and Lambert" clear varnish -- right off the shelf. And they do not wait very long to rub them out. They also French polish the sound-board on request.

[deadedith]

I'll be using U-Beaut hard shellac on my current creative endeavor :-) It has gotten some very good reviews; I have some good pieces of scrap for practice.
DaveB

[deadedith]

Oh and by the way I used varnish on my last project and it turned out very nice. My nephew used the guitar on the road and so far it is holding up very well. Sounds and looks good.
DaveB

[grouper]

On my original statement I didnt say varnish is not a good finish. I said I didnt want to use it. Secondly Violin Varnish is not varnish,it is shellac with additives. The research I did re violin finishes in general, not specifically the SM product, indicated that violin finishes were not good for guitars. So again I did not say that varnish is a bad finish for guitars. I suppose any finish used could be experimented with enough to make it work. Some people even finish with glue but Im not the experimental type. I am looking for a finish that would be straightforward and not compromise me or the guitar. At this point shellac seems to be fit that criteria. Thanks for input and conversation. Additional responses appreciated.

[kencierp]

KMG sells Hindersine Violin Varnish they make two versions one oil and one spirit/achohol based. Here's the recipe if you want to brew your own, it contains the seedlac element. Funny if it is not a type of varnish you'd think it would be called something else?

Luscombe Variation Violin Varnish Recipe
Luscombe Violins Inc. – http://www.violins.ca

This varnish recipe is based on an old traditional Italian recipe (the 1704 varnish) with slight changes.. I have found it to be an excellent varnish for new instruments - it dries fairly fast, is transparent and durable (not too hard or soft). I prefer the varnish to have a 'natural' feel, as most of the older Italian violins have. The materials to make it are available on our web site at http://www.violins.ca, and the preparation instructions below are fairly easy to follow; the process takes about 1-3 weeks and only about an hour of time (once you have the equipment and supplies).

This variation of the 1704 varnish I prefer to the original recipe for the varnishing of new instruments. A small amount of mastic improves adherence between coats, and the sandarac adds a bit of hardness. These ingredients are included in our varnish ingredients package, item number 2-1704I (please note that this is a double recipe):

90 grams seedlac
10 grams gum mastic
10 grams gum sandarac
10-14 ml. lavender spike oil (more oil yields a softer and more supple varnish)

400 ml. of ethyl alcohol are needed for this recipe, and is not included with the ingredients. This is available from us, or from a hardware store or chemical supply. We use denatured ethanol, which contains about 5-10% methyl alcohol (and thus is not subject to liquor taxes in Canada).

Preparation Instructions

Place all of the ingredients in a glass jar and let it dissolve, stirring at least twice a day, until the gums no longer sit and stick to the bottom of the jar (this may take from one to three weeks). When completely dissolved (there will be some naturally occurring dirt and sludge), boil in a double boiler for seven minutes, let cool, and then boil again for seven minutes. While still warm, filter through a cloth (I use a cheesecloth). If it is allowed to cool it will be difficult to filter. Repeat the filtering process until there is no more dirt in the filter (2-3 times is usually sufficient). Once this process is complete, and the varnish has cooled, it is ready to use. Since alcohol is lost in the cooking process, thinning with alcohol will probably be necessary to obtain brushing consistency. Be sure to have extra alcohol on hand for this.

The varnish colour will vary, depending on the particular shipment of Seedlac. This can range from a light yellow-gold, to an old-gold; from reddish to green. The 1704 varnish will usually be quite light without the use of colours. I prefer to start with a yellow base and build the darker colours on top. A varnish that does not have a good colour base of yellow tends to look incomplete regardless how much colour is put over the white wood. For more information about colouring violin varnish, please visit http://www.violins.ca/varnish/

[kencierp]

Here's a good link that compares the two types of Violin varnishes

http://www.leroydouglasviolins.com/varnish.htm