This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

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Diane Kauffmds
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I want to apologize to the forum, and especially John Hall, for my inactivity. I’ve found it difficult to use the computer after my last shoulder surgery. But, work is piling up in the shop, so I’m back to working limited hours.

Although this is a repair, I thought I’d put it here as a discussion of glue choices for builds. We’ve had discussions on different glues. This is a good example of why we use glues that can be undone.
I know that new builders want an indestructible guitar. But, acoustic guitars are meant to be disassembled. Years down the road, your guitar will need a neck reset, or repair. It’s essential that you can “unglue” the guitar. We’re limited to heat and/or moisture, like steam, to disassemble a guitar, so your glue choice needs to come apart using these methods.

There is a place for glues like 2-part epoxy, for certain repairs, like a broken headstock. We use ca glue and Duco Cement for very specific reasons, like plastic binding and inlay. But don’t use them for building.

Titebond I (Original) or equivalent, or biological glues like hide or fish glue, are the best choices for building. Never use Titebond II or Titebond III. The only exception is for lamination, such as gluing wood purfling to wood binding, before bending. Titebond II and III are water-resistant. Titebond III in particular is waterproof, and heatproof.

The guitar on my bench is only 6 months old. The fretboard was made with an extreme bevel on each edge, which allowed the strings to fall off of the frets while playing. My customer elected to have me replace the board, rather the original builder.

What started out as a straight forward fb replacement, turned into a nightmare. No amount of heat would release the glue. The customer confirmed that the builder used Titebond III for the entire build. I was also able to stick my business card ½” under the bridge, which made it an accident waiting to happen.
I cut the board through fret 12 slot, to remove the extension, to see what was happening. Imagine my surprise when the end of the 2-way truss rod stuck up out of the guitar.

The truss rod was torqued almost to its limit, the opposite direction that we normally adjust it. Instead of correcting the relief from the string pull, the builder tried using the truss rod to correct an overset neck (one set too far back).

It took hours to get the fb off, because of the Titebond III. I was very concerned that I didn’t get all of the old glue from the neck. After replacing the fretboard, and adjusting the truss rod appropriately, I kept it in the shop for a week, to make sure it was okay. I used Titebond Original.

I was lucky with the bridge. The builder didn’t use enough glue, so it popped off with a chisel and mallet. The bridge was ¾” thick to compensate for the over set neck.

The 6 month old truss rod was extremely corroded. It was rusted. I replaced it with one of my fully covered, blue Martin Rods. I cleaned the bridge footprint with my inlay tool, just taking off the old glue.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

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Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

My shop boy, Marty.
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Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
TEETERFAN
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by TEETERFAN »

That truss rod was sure wacky. That corrosion is puzzling. Perhaps the builder introduced steam in there in an attempt to fix the neck problem.
Good to hear you’re able to work again.
Cat’s growing!
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
phavriluk
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by phavriluk »

Marty is a beautiful,little jewel of a kitty. You're both lucky!
peter havriluk
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

phavriluk wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:16 pm Marty is a beautiful,little jewel of a kitty. You're both lucky!
Thank you Peter. He is a jewel. He's big enough now to terrorize the household. Haha
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
phavriluk
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by phavriluk »

That's his job!
peter havriluk
BEJ
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by BEJ »

Diane, sorry you are still having health issues but sounds like you are working around them. I've had some health issues that have kept me out of the shop lately but getting resolved I think. It really sucks when one finds something they really like to do and can't do it as much because of age or health issues. Oh to have known what you know now 50 years ago.

To the subject, I started using a glue, Spectrum Adhesives CP-0101 a few years ago, was mentioned by Tim McKnight. Dries hard like the LMI glue and no creep after a good clamp up and drying, and dries hard no buffing out tap tones. Don't know how it would be on a teardown, haven't had to do that yet on any of my builds. One that needed went into the fireplace instead, one cool fire.

glue source: CP Adhesives Newark, Ohio, web site under there name.

Bruce,
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

Hi Bruce,

I'd do a test joint first, then see if it will "unglue". There are uses in luthiery for glues like Titebond II and III, like laminating purfling to binding , prior to bending, or for lamination that needs to be permanent. Original Titebond, hide glue, ca glue, wouldn't work in this instance.

Titebond III is sold at Stewmac. Stewmac mentions lamination, but doesn't make clear that you shouldn't use it for general guitar construction. IMO, they should put a disclaimer on it so folks don't use it for acoustic guitar construction.

I'll stick with hhg, which I consider the best for acoustic guitars for many reasons. There's a learning curve, but it's not difficult to use at all. There are advantages to hhg that you won't have with most glues, the biggest is that it'll stick to itself down the road, for repairs.

If the bridge had been glued with hhg, I could have warmed it, then worked new hhg under it to glue it.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
tippie53
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Re: This is why you shouldn't use Titebond III

Post by tippie53 »

no apology needed life sometimes makes us take a different path
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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