Bloodwood binding whoas

[Kevin Sjostrand]

Okay,
Suggestions please.
I am bending bloodwood bindings, on a bending pipe, which I have glued on black fiber side purflings using super glue. I am bending dry. I taped all 4 together and successfully bent the lower bout and waist....this is a dred with cutaway. I separated the pairs, and successfully bent the upper bout on one set. I took the other set to a smaller bending pipe to do the cutaway, and snap, snap snap.
I thought I was going slow, feeling the wood, etc, etc. This tighter bend is going to be tough.
Can I use steam ala a wet rag on the pipe without delaminating my fiber purfling? Will it help? Should I soak the binding first?
I know some of you have bent bloodwood.....how'd you do it?
I do not have a bending form machine, so this has to be done on the pipe.
Thanks.

Kevin

[Tony_in_NYC]

I have never bent bloodwood, but I have read about the problems associated with bending it. It seems that if there is any runout whatsoever, it will crack. High heat, well quartered and use the steam. If you are worried about the black fiber delaminating, you wont have that issue once you break all of the bloodwood trying to bend it dry!!
All glue will release with enough heat, but how much will it take to get the CA to release remains to be seen. Hot, a little wet, and go for it.

[Kevin Sjostrand]

Yeah Tony, I believe that I will do just that. I will try a little steam on a piece of the broken and see how it reacts as I bend the tight curve. Thanks for the encouragement.
Did you try out that sweet LMI bender yet?

Kevin

[Tony_in_NYC]

Good luck with the blood wood. I have not tried out the bender yet. I am waiting for some practice sides. I should order them so that they get here soon! LOL
I am very anxious to try it. Once I get the process down, I have a nice set of claro walnut waiting to become a guitar.
I plan on making a video in real time of using the bender on one side, start to finish. No edits. Mainly thats because I dont yet know how to use the editing software on this new iMac. The other reason is because I think people should see it. I wish LMI would post a start to finish video on their site. The promo video is nice but I wanted to see the whole process before I bought it. Luckily my wife is clairvoyant and knew I wanted it. Leaving the page open several hundred times helped as well I am sure!

[Ken Hundley]

Back it with some sheet metal or something to help guide and trap the heat and steam. I have found that to be as important as the feel and the temperature for well figured woods, or some jus tplain pain in the butt woods.

[darren]

Kevin,
we have the same bending set up and i've not had success with bending dry. I always have a rag on the iron that i keep wet throughout the process. When I've broken bindings I'm pretty sure its been too dry, too cool, and I'm going too fast. Last weekend I bent my walnut sides and mad rose bindings - I think bending 2 bindings at a time works best for me and my process.

When bending my koa sides, I tried backing with some metal stock but didn't feel it improved anything. I couldn't see the wood, and was hard to handle. works for ken though. :)

bloodwood bindings do have their reputation - looks like for a good reason.

[enalnitram]

in my limited binding bending experience, I have soaked mine. I put them (maple) in one of those 5-gallon buckets for about an hour. do one side, bend it. then soak the other side, then bend that. seemed to help things out, lots. i broke a couple before i started soaking em. didn't break any after.

[Kevin Sjostrand]

Thanks Guys,
Rick, I will tape them together, I have both top and bottom of the cutaway side to redo. I will so a little spritzing, and use my wet rag on the iron as I do for the sides....I bet it will go much better.
Now I need to get the bindings ordered so I can be doing this again this Saturday.

Kevin

[naccoachbob]

I like using CA for gluing purfling to binding, mainly because it's not as sensitive to moisture and heat as Titebond and the like. That being the case, I've had few problems hand bending binding/purfling. Spritz the wood on both sides, crank up the heat, and go for it. Re-spritz as the wood dries out and before it scorches! Watch for delamination and re-glue if you see any problems. I put a piece of wax paper on the bench, press the binding down and wick CA into the joint with a pipette. You can go back to the hot pipe almost immediately.

I generally tape the top and back pieces together (so the purfling is held in place) and bend both at one time but it sounds like you only have one piece left to bend. Just keep an eye on the purfling as you bend. It should be fine.

Rick, a quick question on your procedure with the CA. Do you see any need to put any type of coating on a light wood purfling? I know CA will mess up a spruce top if you don't put something down, but does it do that for woods normally used for purfling?
Thanks,
Bob

[Kevin Sjostrand]

Okay, so I'm reporting in here.
I received some new bloodwood bindings......8 more. I just tried bending two more sets of two for the cutaway. Broke them both. One I just went at it with wet rag on the pipe, and continually spritzing the binding. That helped some, but not much. Then I tried soaking the bindings in hot water for about 10 minutes, this in turn didn't help much either. In fact, the wood hardly wanted to bend at all. This is tough stuff!
So, I took a foot long staight piece and planed it down to .055", stuck that in a pan of water, brought it to boil for about 5 minutes, took it out and wrapped it around a a 2.5" dia. glass, and it wraps without breaking. However, it did not retain the full bend after drying, there was some springback, but, gave it plenty of what I will call "prebend" so that it would then wrap around the cutaway on the guitar.
So, my plan is to thin the binding, soak it in boiling water, and place it in a mold (which I still have to make) that I can clamp the binding in to the shape of the cutaway side. Then when installed, I will place a .020" black fibre purfling strip on the inside of the binding to bring it out to the correct depth. The binding I've already bent for the regular side I will install the same way, and then scrape it down to the sides. This is the plan......Plan B. I hope I don't have to come up with a Plan C, cause that plan will be to use a different binding!!
The boodwood is much more flexible at this thickness verses the .085" it came in, makes a huge difference. I still don't trust it would bend much better on the pipe, but I may try and short section thinned on the pipe and see what it does.
Thanks for listening.

Kevin