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Hi, I tried a method to position the bridge which worked well for me. I don't know if anyone else uses it and would like your thoughts on it. I first drill a small 1/16 hole in the exact middle of the saddle slot, both lengthwise and widthwise and another in the extreme end of the slot. I then measured the scale length plus intonation allowance onto the soundboard and marked this onto the wood at the glue line were the two halfs are joined. I drilled another 1/16 inch hole in the soundboard at this point. Using a 1/16 brad I placed this through the middle hole in the saddle slot and placed the bridge onto the soundboard. This gave me the correct position for the bridge. It was the easy to get the bridge parallel to the frets as it was free to turn but held in the correct place. I then measured from the edge of the fret at the body joint, (12th in my case) to the edge of the bridge and turned it so that it was equal when measured from both sides. Another 1/16 hole was then drilled in the hole at the end of the saddle slot and a brad used as a guide pin. The bridge could then be removed and repositioned easily. I will do this next time as it was really easy and gave me a good result.

PS I like the new layout.

Mike, I don't use your method so I can't comment specifically. I do, however use a common method that has worked for me over the years. Being new here and not really knowing the average experience level of the members, I'll just state the method I use as completely as possible and apologize later if I'm too basic or detailed.

As I'm sure everyone already knows, positioning the bridge is one of THE most critical operations in making a quality guitar. As such it makes sense to have a reliable and repeatable method of locating and fixing its exact placement.

For me, the following assumptions must be established and confirmed as correct before attempting to place the bridge:
1) The bridgeplate is in the correct position.
2) The neck is flossed evenly with the upper bout and tightened securely.
3) The FB is centered exactly on the neck and matches the centerline of the soundboard.
4) The bridge is sanded on the soundboard to mimic its contour above the bridgeplate.
5) The bridgepin holes are drilled partially through the bridge with a 3/16" brad point bit.

I use Stewmac's Saddle-Matic tool to first find the scale length by setting it to measure the exact distance from the nut line to the center of the 12th fret. Once that distance is locked in, it now is used to locate the saddle position from the 12th fret to the front of the saddle slot. Locking the fret end in place (with tape) on the center line of the 12th fret, I use the two locating pins on the opposite end to just touch the north end of the saddle slot. (Note: the pins are locked about .090" beyond the actual scale length as a compensation factor). I then use a drafting triangle aligned with the soundboard centerline to square up the saddle. Once the bridge is precisely centered and squared and the pins are positioned properly, I draw a light line with the bridge to define its location on the soundboard. I then securely tape down the wings so that it doesn't move. Next I clamp down the bridge with a curved caul underneath and drill the E and e holes through their centers with a 1/16" drill bit. 2 bits will later locate and secure the bridge in place when we glue it to the soundboard.

I now have a means to exactly locate the bridge after the guitar is finished. The Saddle-Matic is one of the few jigs I have ever actually bought and find it indispensable. I hope this helps.

kencierp wrote:KMG offers this device that does all of the above

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :MESELX:IT

The Bridge Setter and SS Clamp are pretty much no brainer solutions for a process that is bothersome for many new builders.

This is a very clever device BUT it's way more expensive than using the SaddleMatic. With all due respect, at $68 + S&H it only covers one scale length. The Saddlematic is $31 and can cover all scale lengths up to 27". I have used 6 different scale lengths so far and all were covered by the Saddlematic...for an initial investment of $31. Using the Bridge Setter and SS Clamp would have cost me 6 x $68 = $408! ...or am I missing something?

Yep -- you are missing something -- the different scale templates can be purchased seperately and combo packages are also available, so your math is way off which leads to the nice thing about the KMG Bridge Setter ---- there is no math (compensation is calculated) or set up involed. The device is self centering -- the product is mostly meant for the new comers who normally do a long and/or short scale. When I use it, I spend about three minutes to locating the bridge and drilling the pilots hole (just like the factories) The original Kit Guitar Forum owner did a very favorable evaluation of the KMG Bridge Setter and SS clamp package and also made some not so favorable comments about the Stew Mac Tune o matic -- he liked the bridge setter and clamp --- sold his tune o matic for $20 or so bucks. For the record I once built a comissioned classical guitar with the bridge "exactly one inch off location" so all kinds of mistakes can be made when manually positioning a bridge and/or saddle. In my very humble opinion it is always best not to evalute something that you have never used. If you like the Tune O Matic that's just fine.

Ken...I never evaluated your Bridge Setter so I could not comment on its performance. FYI, I also believe it's wrong to be critical of something before trying. I was assuming it was effective...please go back and read what I said. I only commented on the need to buy one for each scale length as well as the perceived cost differences compared to the SaddleMatic. If my cost estimate was in error, please set the record straight. As far as the SaddleMatic's ease of use, I was able to use it effectively from my 1st guitar through my most recent and it is probably the go to jig in every shop I ever visited. But I'll concede that your jig is reliable, fast and easy to use.

My comments are made without any malice toward you or your jig...I was simply presenting a less expensive alternative. I'm used to forum discussions where we can all discuss differences openly and honestly. It's in that spirit that I post and I believe that truth and knowledge are best served under those conditions. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

Here’s the problem -- you tried to do a value add and price comparison on two items – which do not do the same things --- the Stem Mac device does not automatically do anything, you have to know the appropriate dimensions and hope you have set up the tool correctly. It does not center the bridge, it does not clamp the bridge in the correct location it does not control the process by stabalizing the unit to the neck, its does not come with a bridge clamp, it does not come with a drill bit, it does not come with drill guide locations and locating pins. In fact it does exactly what can be done with a straight edge and a right angle drafting square, which also requires that you do all the math and deliniate the positions. So does that mean the Saddle matic thing has no value?

I simple do not understand why you chose to try and undermine the value of a product you know nothing about --- The KMG product puts the bridge in the exact place it needs to be, all the assembler/builder needs to know is the scale length. Since we sell hundreds of the Bridge Setters to "Pro's and amatuers" I know for a fact that many builders see and understand the real the value. Perhaps this will help you understand why feathers were ruffled.

OK...let me approach this a different way. I had nothing against you personally...until now. You're acting like nobody I've ever seen on a legitimate forum where objective thinking and lively debate push the state of knowledge forward. Just to let you know...I'm here for 2 reasons:
1) To give forward to those who are just starting their adventure in guitarbuilding. I can never repay those who have helped me along the way, so we give forward.
2) Out of respect for 2 of my best friends in the guitarbuilding community. Both John Hall and Bob Cefalu helped me tremendously over the years and are like brothers to me.

I feel like I walked in on an informercial where a dissenting view is not allowed. I don't know how the rules of behavior are established here but on other fora, you'd be admonished on most and perhaps banished on some. Try treating posters like that on MIMF and see how long you last. I'm certain that I did nothing wrong in stating my preference because your device is just more expensive by comparison. Others can choose as they please...It's still a free market last time I looked and we are free to choose once we become educated. I did nothing wrong in presenting an alternative. Get used to it!

I have no problem with your jig...I stipulated that it works as advertised...it's just not as economical. The items that I use with a Saddlematic are common items that would be found in most shops and they are one-time purchases. Your comments about the Saddlematic were weak and parochial. And BTW...it's a Saddlematic ( Item #4462 at Stewmac) and I have no commercial interest. It is not a Tune-O-matic as you continually referred to it in your responses. That's a different product all together.

I have the SaddleMatic and have used it 3 times. It works for what it is intended.
Haven't used Ken's jig. I'm sure it works great too. I figure spend what you can afford, and get what makes it easiest for you.
Rulers and triangles can work too!
Here is another couple of cents, suggested out of concern for all forum members and participants. I for one would like to continue to enjoy participating in this forum. I respect everyones abilities, knowledge, and wisdom that is shared with us all here. Misunderstandings can happen, but confrontations are avoidable.
Lets all try and thicken our skin a bit......................., no disrespect intended!

Kevin

I have the bridge setter and bridge clamp, and absolutely love it, and can also see the value of the Saddlematic over using a ruler and a triangle, though I have not used it.

While I enjoy lively debate....so long as there is value given by the comments made.....I would respectfully suggest feather ruffling and straightening be be taken care of by email or PM.

kencierp wrote:Here’s the problem -- you tried to do a value add and price comparison on two items – which do not do the same things --- the Stem Mac device does not automatically do anything, you have to know the appropriate dimensions and hope you have set up the tool correctly. It does not center the bridge, it does not clamp the bridge in the correct location it does not control the process by stabalizing the unit to the neck, its does not come with a bridge clamp, it does not come with a drill bit, it does not come with drill guide locations and locating pins. In fact it does exactly what can be done with a straight edge and a right angle drafting square, which also requires that you do all the math and deliniate the positions. So does that mean the Saddle matic thing has no value?

I simple do not understand why you chose to try and undermine the value of a product you know nothing about --- The KMG product puts the bridge in the exact place it needs to be, all the assembler/builder needs to know is the scale length. Since we sell hundreds of the Bridge Setters to "Pro's and amatuers" I know for a fact that many builders see and understand the real the value. Perhaps this will help you understand why feathers were ruffled.

Ken I have read and re-read JJ's post and I can't seem to find the part where he undermines your product. Perhaps you could underline or change his undermining comments to RED/BOLD so that I can read what you read.