Laminated bracing - What do you think?

[Ken Hundley]

Man, a lot of responses in a little time. Correct....I was highly influenced, or should we say intrigued by Macphearson's designs, and decided to try some myself. I absolutely love the sound of a jumbo, but the feel of an OM. unfortunately, the OMs I have played (and built using traditional bracing) just didn't quite have the same presence as my jumbo, so I wondered how we could change that. I came up with a number of ideas....moving the sound hole over to the sound port. Adding a second port on the other side of the neck to balance, provide similar benefits to a standard sound hole and a port. Also figured, what the heck....I'm changing it all, why not mess with the braces as well? That is what it was....messing with it. Everything I tried was more by gut feel than anything scientific....its not a business for me, and its more fun messing around. If it works, then I can get a little more serious and determine why.

I did an experiment....unfortunately, did not photograph or document it. Essentially, I made a brace of spruce, roughly 1/4"x1/2", and hung weights on it till it broke. Then, I laminated some spruce/wenge/spruce and did the same thing. It was actually a little more flexible, surprisingly, than solid spruce, but held roughly 20% more weight before breaking. The takeaway for me is I could use less braces, freeing up my design a bit. This would also make the guitar more flexible, allowing the inherent tone in the guitar to be more readily projected. My one concern was having it be too flexible and creating a dome....happened on one of my experiments, partially due to a poor fit at the intersection.

I love the sound my guitars make, it is quite distinctive. I am unsure, however, how much is due to the brace pattern, how much is due to the laminations, and how much is due to the sound hole on the side. The combination works well, though in some notes, especially when the center strings become more dominant, there is almost a banjo tone to it. The bass is very low, very resonant, almost breathy, like its a tiger breathing on you. The trebles are quite clear and high, but the sustain is less than my jumbo. The guitar has an excellent presence, very clear and individual when played with others, and is also quite comfortable to hold and play, but I am still working on the design. I have 3 sets already assembled with the laminated bracing, a Macacuba (yes Kev, still there)/Sitka with maple binding (Jumbo), a Padauk/sitka (OM), and another Padauk /sitka jumbo. These are the remnants of the damaged guitars (some of you will remember the squirrel stories). I have been reluctant to work on them because of the frustration in the past, knowing they are damaged goods, and all that crap, but I still pick em up and work on them. I have also been working on my electrics slowly but surely, as well as helping my 8 year old build his own electric (he's doing a great job by the way!) I am not sure how many of those three I will finish, I would like to start a new one or two that have not had so many repairs already. Point is, I have a few more of this design to complete and compare, and see if the sound has been common. SO far, I have completed a Padauk OM, a Curly Mango OM, and a Zebrawood OM. The Zebra had a standard sound hole and pattern, but was laminated, and had many similar overtones I think I can attribute to the lamination. I would like to build some of my own design bracing patterns out of Solid Sitka, maybe a few with sitka laminates as suggested above as well.

I looked at CF, but it was pretty expensive where I looked, and I have not been as fianncially solid these past couple years as I would like. I did, however, have a lot of wenge at the time, and thought I would give it a try. It is as strong as ebony, yet considerably lighter. Here's an example of a top and back I have done:

PB020002.JPG

P5220021.JPG

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And I have to say, half the reason I kept doing it this way is I thought it just looked cool.

[deadedith]

Hundley, you do make really cool looking guitars, no question about that! I always enjoy looking at them, and I'd love to play one someday. Why don't you ship one to me for a trial? :-)

[Kevin Sjostrand]

"We wants the redhead..ah, er, the Macauaba OM"

Kevin

[David L]

Interesting, The top bracing is spruce/wenge/spruce and your back bracing is wenge/spruce/wenge.

David L

[KyleColdren]

Ken,
That bracing looks great! Fantastic work.

[Kevin Sjostrand]

I got nothin! :>)

Kevin

[seanbig]

On my next guitar I will be laminating the back bracing for ornamental reasons. I will decide whether to laminate the top braces depending on how tedious the process of gluing scraps together turns out to be.

[tippie53]

the one big variable is cross grain laminated to with grain . Cross grain is stiff a heck. think plywood

[Ken Hundley]

Thanks for the compliments, guys, I really get a kick out of building them this way, and the reaction they get. With regards to what's the benefit? I think that's the point I was getting at....I am not sure laminating the braces is getting me much. It certainly looks cool, but I am not sure how much of the sound quality I perceive (note keyword) is from the laminations, the actual pattern changes, or the fact that there is no sound hole on the front. The next step is to build a similar guitar with solid spruce braces (in the top anyway....I really like the ones in back for no reason except they look good) and see if the guitar has the same characteristics. Laminating the braces is a lot of extra work. Using CF may be more beneficial, but out of my league right now....I need to find a job first.

Jim, I can't speak for anyone else, but my thought with brace laminations, again, inspired from MacPhearson, is that with less braces, a smaller top (like an OM) can be designed to produce sounds typically noted in larger guitars such as dreads and jumbos....ie the top could be more responsive because there is less structure. Laminating the braces did show more flexibility, yet higher strength as I mentioned above. How that works in a guitar was the experiment for me. I have tried to describe the sound but know I fall short. Those that have played the Mango and the Padauk couldn't put them down, though mostly because the players loved the sound coming from the side hole...nothing they'd ever experienced before. I have tried to record a sound byte, a snippet of "Strange Fire" played on two guitars. The first is the Mango, and the second is my jumbo. The recording equipment is not the best, but there is definitely a difference between the two instruments. There was one microphone placed above the upper bout where the sound hole is, and another placed near the bridge, and both guitars were recorded with the exact same settings. You can clearly hear the difference the sound hole on the side makes with regards to what the player hears.....when the jumbo comes on, it is far more right sided....the bridge mic picking up most of the playing. Other than that, its hard to tell what the major differences can be attributed too, and the mic doesn't catch the "breathiness" of the mango....don't know how else to describe the quality of the bass tones.

Give it a listen....

Strange Fire sample.mp3

[David L]

I think that with the lam braces the overall weight of the bracing system woud be less than traditional solid spruce bracing. This is purely speculation as there are several variations that may come into play, i.e., thickness of lams, type of wood(s) used, extra glue for the "lam-up" process and probably some others that I can't think of. It would be really cool if you (Ken) could weigh "all" of the lam braces for the top collectively, and then weigh "all" of the braces for a top using traditional solid spruce. I suspect (again speculation) that the lam braces will weigh less than the solid spruce braces. The reason that I am thinking this way is because it appears (from the photos that you posted) that the lam braces are not as wide as solid spruce. I hate to beat the dead horse, but again I am speculating about the width of what the braces "appear" to be. I also realize that just the opposite may be true, even if they are thinner the hardwood may make up the difference in weight causing them to be just as heavy or even heavier. Wenge is certainly heavier than spruce (DUH!) but it surely isn't the heaviest wood on the face of the planet. Do you have a digital scale or a triple beam or something that you could do this little experiment with?

David L