glues lets have a chat

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garyft1
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: glues lets have a chat

Post by garyft1 »

I don't have fancy top and bottom presses to glue those on. I can't imagine hide glue being pliable long enough to get the top or bottom lined up and positioned exactly right and then place 15 or 20 Go-Bars in place. Seems to me the hide glue would be getting hard before you get the entire top or bottom clamped down all around without leaving gaps. Is this not true? I used the Go-Bar deck and Titebond and my first build slipped about an eighth of an inch off the center line on the back. I will use your advice and try hot hide glue next time.
BTW John, the HD-35 I bought from you and built is my favorite of all the guitars I've built or bought. I used Titebond on the neck, top and back and it has wonderful tone and fullness. It sounds better every day! Thanks again for all your help and tips on the building the ones I bought from you.
tippie53
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Location: Hegins, Pa
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Re: glues lets have a chat

Post by tippie53 »

I use fish glue and I have use Hot Hide glue to glue plates. You have to be quick. Heating the parts helps add some work time but since I found fish glue it is what all I use for gluing on the plates
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
MaineGeezer
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: glues lets have a chat

Post by MaineGeezer »

I tried a different approach when I glued the top and back on the cittern. (See "Blog Your Project.") I made the top (and back) self-locating by having the braces get captured by the notches for them in the kerfing along the sides. For the top, I also used a locating pin through the top into the head block where it would eventually get covered by the fingerboard. This allowed quick and accurate positioning.

Then to glue on the back, I set the sides and end blocks assembly in my 25' radius dish, i.e. top down. I then applied glue, put the back in place, put my 15' radius dish over the back, and then proceeded to pile about a hundred pounds of assorted tool boxes and blocks of steel on top of the stack. I think, if I practiced, I might be able to slather on HHG, place the back (or top), place the appropriate radius dish, and pile on the weight before the HHG had a chance to gell.

Even so, I don't think I'll try it. Fish glue is so much more forgiving.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: glues lets have a chat

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I've recently made the switch to HHG. I had 2 bridge failures using cold hide glue recently. I bought it 4 months ago, so maybe it's past it's shelf life. You wouldn't know by looking or smelling it. However, I've decided that I like the properties of HHG, esp. for older guitars.

I replaced the top of a 1954 Martin D-18 with HHG. All of the bracing is glued with HHG. I put 2 locator dowels in the neck block, under the fingerboard extension area, as John Hall showed me, for simplifying and accurately closing the box. Of course, all braces were fitted, so all I had to do was put the glue around the kerfing and put the top in place. In all, it may have taken 2-3 minutes total, if even that long. Then I clamped.

The secret to success with HHG is having all of your ducks in a row and ready to use. That means clamps are completely open and ready to use. The use of the dowels allowed me to get the top on and centered very quickly.

You definitely need to do a complete dry run before using HHG.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
MaineGeezer
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: glues lets have a chat

Post by MaineGeezer »

I'm about to glue the bridge on my latest guitar (see "The 00 project" in "Blog Your Project") so I got my hide glue container out of the freezer where it's been for al least a year. I thought it would be a prudent move to test it to see if it was still good, so I heated it up. I had to add some water to it because some had sublimated away, but I got it to a good consistency and slathered it on a sample joint. That was about 5 hours ago. I just tried to separate the joint by beating on it with a hammer, and it held. I haven't taken it to failure yet, but think it's going to be okay to use.
I expect as long as hide glue doesn't get moldy or something, it will keep "forever."

Does anybody have any solid information on that?
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 2981
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: glues lets have a chat

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

My goto glue is hot hide glue.

Pros:

1. Can be reconstituted with hot water.
2. Easily releases with heat/moisture
3. Easy to clean off of surfaces with water, even when dry.
4. Sticks to itself. You don't have to clean off the old HHG, to reglue with new HHG
5. IMO, affects sound in a good way; when dry, because it has a glassy consistency.
6. Self clamping

Cons:

1. Short open time (just reheat joint with hairdryer to ensure it sticks)
2. Goes bad if not refrigerated, or frozen
3. Has a learning curve.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
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