12 string

[Ben-Had]

I want to build a 12 and have the following two questions:

1. Does the top need and type of extra reinforcement bracing, if so, what type;

2. Where can I buy a 12 string bridge and neck.

[tippie53]

I can help

[Freeman]

There are lots of considerations in building a twelve string. I have built two (and own one other). John can help with parts (neck and bridge are important ones) and there is at least one set of plans available (based on a Taylor jumbo).

Before I built mine I spent a lot of time researching different designs and bracing patterns - they range from standard unscalloped 5/16 on my D12-28 (just like an uscalloped D28) to Taylors (additional tone bar and finger braces, thicker top plate). I also have some photos of the LKSM which has wide braces that are deeply scalloped (the story is that Leo took a pocket knife to one, then told Bob thats what he liked). You may want to increase the height of your braces slightly too - you are dealing with about 50 percent more top torque. Here is a thread on my OM12 which was a kit put together by John.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ink:top:en

The OM12 it my go-to 12 string (the D12-28 mostly sits in the closet). It is strung with mediums (12's) and tuned down two half steps, sometimes lower for open tunings. It sounds good at D, but gets kind of muddy at C# (the D12-28 is happier at D#). The neck and bridge are off the Martin assembly line and is short scale (because that's what John could get) - if I was doing it again I would make it long scale for down tuning.

My third 12 is a scratch build based on measurements at MIMF for a ladder brace very long scale guitar (a Leadbelly Stella clone). I carved the neck for it - the bridge is a vintage style pyramid (but compensated) and it uses a tailpiece (kind of hard to find). Strung with heavies and tuned to C or lower (or open tunings four or five steps down) the thing is an absolute monster (both to play and tone).

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/archives ... 14_0_9_0_C

There is also a great 12 string build thread going on at OLF right now

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 01&t=30714

I'd be happy to help in any way I can if I knew a little more what you want to build. A couple of quick thoughts - consider making it a bolt on neck unless you are really good at dovetails - you do have more stress on the neck block. Depending the body size and shape, add a tone bar or make the braces slightly taller. Consider a thicker top plate or maybe adi. Make your bridge plate slightly larger. Have fun.

edit to add - there are two bridge configurations on pinned 12 strings - octaves near the saddle and away. I would opt for away to give the primaries the best break angle altho you can do a lot with ramping. Also consider making the saddle slot wider so you can use a thicker piece of bone - that way you can compensate each string of each course.

[Tony_in_NYC]

You will need .5 grams of Unobtainium. I can sell you some. But its gonna cost ya.

[Ben-Had]

There are lots of considerations in building a twelve string. I have built two (and own one other). John can help with parts (neck and bridge are important ones) and there is at least one set of plans available (based on a Taylor jumbo).

Before I built mine I spent a lot of time researching different designs and bracing patterns - they range from standard unscalloped 5/16 on my D12-28 (just like an uscalloped D28) to Taylors (additional tone bar and finger braces, thicker top plate). I also have some photos of the LKSM which has wide braces that are deeply scalloped (the story is that Leo took a pocket knife to one, then told Bob thats what he liked). You may want to increase the height of your braces slightly too - you are dealing with about 50 percent more top torque. Here is a thread on my OM12 which was a kit put together by John.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... ink:top:en

The OM12 it my go-to 12 string (the D12-28 mostly sits in the closet). It is strung with mediums (12's) and tuned down two half steps, sometimes lower for open tunings. It sounds good at D, but gets kind of muddy at C# (the D12-28 is happier at D#). The neck and bridge are off the Martin assembly line and is short scale (because that's what John could get) - if I was doing it again I would make it long scale for down tuning.

My third 12 is a scratch build based on measurements at MIMF for a ladder brace very long scale guitar (a Leadbelly Stella clone). I carved the neck for it - the bridge is a vintage style pyramid (but compensated) and it uses a tailpiece (kind of hard to find). Strung with heavies and tuned to C or lower (or open tunings four or five steps down) the thing is an absolute monster (both to play and tone).

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/archives ... 14_0_9_0_C

There is also a great 12 string build thread going on at OLF right now

http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/view ... 01&t=30714

I'd be happy to help in any way I can if I knew a little more what you want to build. A couple of quick thoughts - consider making it a bolt on neck unless you are really good at dovetails - you do have more stress on the neck block. Depending the body size and shape, add a tone bar or make the braces slightly taller. Consider a thicker top plate or maybe adi. Make your bridge plate slightly larger. Have fun.

edit to add - there are two bridge configurations on pinned 12 strings - octaves near the saddle and away. I would opt for away to give the primaries the best break angle altho you can do a lot with ramping. Also consider making the saddle slot wider so you can use a thicker piece of bone - that way you can compensate each string of each course.

Thanks for the info, will take a little while to digest. It's to be a 000 12-28.

Tim

[Ben-Had]

You will need .5 grams of Unobtainium. I can sell you some. But its gonna cost ya.

Thanks Tony but I have a friend on Pandora, now if I can just find where I parked that darn space craft.

[Freeman]

[quote="Ben-Had]Thanks for the info, will take a little while to digest. It's to be a 000 12-28.

Tim[/quote]

OK, remember that a 14 fret 000 is short scale, 12 fretters can be long or short. If I was going to do it again mine would be 12 fret, long scale and slotted headstock. John and I talked about a slothead when I built the OM but two things stopped me - first, he couldn't get the neck and two, tuners weren't available. Since then SM has come out with their wonderful 6 on a plate that I used on the Stella clone and you can probably get a neck from Hanaklei Moon (I think John can get those).

If you decide to build a paddle head I have the drilling jig and would be happy to loan it to you. Use mini-Grovers or something similar.

[tippie53]

12 string dreds are often 24.9 scale

[Freeman]

12 string dreds are often 24.9 scale

Yes, but because of my tunings and the way I play I happen to like longer which was the whole point of my long post. If I could do the OM over, John, it would be 25.4. My Stella clone is 26.5. If the OP is going to always tune to concert, short scale would be fine.

I also don't happen to believe that a dread is a good size for a 12 string. The whole reason that I built the OM 12 is that I didn't like the balance on my D12-28 (which I will sell one of these days). IMHO Martin's best 12's were the 12 fret slothead sloped shoulder D12-18/20/35 and the new Grand J has a great following (it is interesting that the Grand J flipped the pin holes). If you are getting a Martin bridge for Ben make sure you ask him which he wants.

[tippie53]

I also like 000 better . I think for me they feel more comfortable