Laminating sides, and a no water no heat bending method

[Kevin Sjostrand]

Darryl, there has to be something productive to the laminated sides since Bogdanavich is building concert quality, very high dollar instruments that someone is purchasing and playing.
I don't think I will try it as it looks like much more work, not that I'm lazy or anything, I'm just sayin.....

Kevin

[kencierp]

This is pretty good thread -- I would suggest we don't try and invalidate a concept or feature by disparaging the company choosing or advertising a concept that is not traditional -- the organizations I have worked for as an engineer in some cases, took pride in making the most minute improvements -- especially quality related -- and at least in my experience we always worked "as a fact sharing decision making team", all departments -- even at General Motors.

That said and back on point -- Tim McKnight is making high end guitars using double layer sides -- his website has some details and the logic behind that choice -- I guess its plywood in the end?

[kencierp]

Of course the drum comparison is perfectly accurate -- and documented, there are different tonal qualities related to the stiffness of the shell/rim. So, we'll just put some glue on the top edge of the drum shell, put on the skin, tension it up, let the glue dry and take off the tension mechanisms all together ---- there -- now one unit just like a guitar top which is also stretched and under tension from the pull of the strings. Yes comparisons that don't jibe with our personal predetermined models are difficult for us to explain -- that does not make them inaccurate.

I am thinking the energy of a guitar top does not stop at the perimeter of the sound-board, it surely travels up and down the rim, back, neck etc. I do find it intriguing that current real time information and claims are being categorized as "hype" while tales resulting from a 175 year old rumor are presented here as some sort of supporting evidence, proof, documentation.

Still a good discussion.

[kencierp]

Not sure how my comments can be construed as arrogant or personal -- Sorry you feel picked on -- I give -- you win.

[Darryl Young]

Seems the drum head alalogy might be useful for some simple concepts; however, it seems to be apples and oranges for most analogies. Seems the biggest difference is a drum head is only in tension while on a guitar top, you have tension and compression. The soundboard has bracing to prevent the top from buckling under the compression load which is a foreign concept to a drum head. No force applied to the middle of a drum head while the top has roughly 170 lb of tension near the middle of the lower bout. And finally, a drum head is not part of the support structure (the rim is the support structure) while the top is the chief support structure on a guitar as it must resist the string tension (build it too weak and see what happens).

This has been a great thread. I'm by no means an expert but as Ken mentioned, every one has a model in there head......and reading other's observations help me refine my model. It seems the better the model you have for how a guitar functions, then the better choices you make while building.

[tippie53]

this proves my theory that we all think we have an idea in our heads and yet it seems many of these ideas may work . I know there is always more than one way to do things