String/fret buzzing

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sjhouska
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:09 pm

String/fret buzzing

Post by sjhouska »

I've now been playing my first guitar build, a Martin 000 kit, for about 6 months, and I am ready to try to resolve some string/fret buzzing I have. The buzz is minimal at standard tuning, but is very noticeable when I lower string tensions for Drop D and Double Drop D, and a couple of other oddball tunings that I occasionally use. I did my final set up by relying upon the Robert O'Brien video for final set ups. The buzzing has been present, at the same level, since I completed the build - the buzzing has not increased over time.

I am not sure whether I can simply knock the fret wires lower, or whether I have to remove and replace the nut and/or saddle. My preferred approach is to lower the frets, because some slight issues I created during the build will make removal/replacement of the nut a bit difficult. The current fret heights feel fine when I am playing, but the frets feel slightly higher than my factory built D-18 and D-35. I haven't measured the frets to compare actual heights to my factory built guitars. The buzzing is coming, I believe, from the frets up the neck, maybe (?) at 7th or 9th or higher. I don't know if the location makes a difference, or how I can zero in on the location, if the difference does matter.

I am hoping that slightly sanding the frets with a contoured sanding block is a reasonable approach to take.

Any input will be appreciated.
tippie53
Posts: 7011
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Hegins, Pa
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Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by tippie53 »

fretting is more than just hammering in frets

there is a process to follow to get the best out of the fret job
watch this video it may help you find where you need to make adjustments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bxzX2AJzNI
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
sjhouska
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:09 pm

Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by sjhouska »

Thanks John, for the link to your video.

I used the method described in your video when I built the guitar, and the method worked really well. I achieved uniform fret height, levelness, crowning, dressed fret ends, and polishing using your method. Both after leveling the frets, and then again after the final step of polishing, I tested the frets for uniformity by spanning a straightedge across 3 fret wires and trying to "rock" the straightedge along the long axis of the neck on top of each fret wire. I moved the straightedge to the different string positions from side to side, at each fret wire. Your video is very user-friendly.

After my yesterday's posting, I took a closer look at my guitar and I think that the buzzing is coming from the 1st fret wire. I came to this conclusion because there is no buzzing when I fret strings at the 1st fret. In standard tuning, I have to pluck an open string pretty hard to hear a slight buzz, and the buzz is more noticeable in lower tunings when I pluck softer. It's not a crazy loud buzz, but I know it doesn't need to be there. My factory built Martins do not buzz at all when I pluck them with the same gusto, in any tuning. I don't get any buzzing as I move the fretting locations up the neck. I get the same amount of buzz from all but the 4th string.

So, I am guessing that the buzz is from the 1st fret wire and that my nut slots are a tad too low.

I guess the best approach to eliminating the buzz is to replace the nut, with perhaps another option of lowering the 1st fret wire. Lowering the fret wire seems counterintuitive, after having achieved what I believe to be even fret wire heights, etc. Also, after being reminded by John's video of the steps needed to recrown, dress the ends, repolish, etc.

Assuming that I will need to replace the nut, is there an "easy" way to remove a nut that was installed with too much CA glue? Such as a hair dryer, some sort of solvent, etc.? For reasons that I have never understood, I used a lot of CA glue when installing the nut, even though I was thinking at the time that string tension alone would likely be sufficient to hold the nut in place. I am concerned that I might damage the notch where the nut seats if I remove the nut by cutting, whittling, filing, sanding, etc. I think that the nut is made from a synthetic material. If there is a trick to removing an overly CA'd nut, I'd love to hear about it.

So, please, anyone, let me know if replacing the nut is the correct solution for me, and feel free to make any other suggestions, such as "do this" or "DON't do that, dummy."

The help I received from this forum and a few members offline was invaluable to me during my first (and so far only) guitar build. My guitar has a nice voice, but it will sound so much better if I can get rid of the pesky buzz.

Thank you!

P.S. Please excuse me if this is a duplicate posting. I tried to submit this post earlier, but I was pulled away from my computer for awhile before I was able to submit it. I think that I timed-out and that the first iteration of this posting didn't take.
TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by TEETERFAN »

If your buzzing is isolated to open strings, I would agree the nut slot/slots are too deep. Since you are replacing the old nut, you main concern is not harming the neck wood. Before you attempt anything, run an xacto blade between the edges of the nut and the neck/ fingerboard wood, carefully and precisely. This will help prevent chipping out the finish. Lightly tapping with a little block of hardwood between your hammer and nut should eventually loosen it. If it’s being obstinate a little heat from a hair dryer might help, but just a bit.
Solvents shouldn’t be used because anything that effects the glue will effect the finish. That could get real nasty.

Working little chisels or thin spatulas in the seams can mash the surrounding wood, so see if you can avoid that.

Here’s a good video:
https://youtu.be/WDBilUC-xHU
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

If your getting buzzing with open strings on fret 1, your nut is cut too deep. You can solve this by one of two methods, assuming you have bone:

1. replace the nut
2. Fill the slots with a small amount of baking soda and ca glue. This forms a hard layer that can be slotted. I prefer to replace the nut, but if your buzz disappears after filling, then you've confirmed the problem. You just put a tiny amount of baking soda into the slot, then add a drop of ca glue. Allow to dry and harden.

Did this buzz just suddenly appear after 6 months, or have you had the problem all along? If the problem just started, I would double check my setup. Check your truss rod and see if it's over tightened. Your problem could be at the saddle; perhaps the saddle is too low.

To check:

1. Fret string strings on frets 1 and 14. You can capo the strings to fret 1. Can you slip a piece of paper under the strings around fret 5? If the strings are laying on the frets, your truss rod is too tight.

2. Check string height at fret 12. Check this with open strings, no capo. Typical string height is 3/32" from the top of fret 12, to the bottom of string 6. It's 2/32" from the top of fret 12, to the bottom of string 1. If it's less than this, then you may need to make a new saddle that's higher, or place a shim under the existing saddle. I don't like shims; but they can be a temporary fix until you get a new blank.

3. Check your string height above fret 1. You're string height above fret 1 can vary, and this height is dependant on your neck, fretboard, and fret, leveling. When properly leveled, I've gone as low as 0.007" above fret 1 on string 1 (I don't advise this low height). I've found from experience that 98% of my customers like the string height above fret 1, as follows (+/- 0.002):

Fret 1 = 0.012"
fret 2 = 0.012"
Fret 3 = 0.014"
fret 4 = 0.014"
fret 5 = 0.016"
fret 6 = 0.016"

I would advise checking all 3 of these things. I hope this is helpful
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by scamp »

I had the same problem on my first guitar build a few months ago.
There was buzzing on the open high E string.
It didn't buzz when you put your finger on the first fret position on the high E string ( same as your experiencing).

I thought I had been very careful setting the depth of the frets.
I had pressed the strings down using a capo on the third fret position and then measured the clearance between the first fret and the string using a feeler gauge .
I then pulled the string out of the nut slot and filed the slot down a bit and tried again until I got the right spacing ( should be about .002 inches for the high E string and about .005 for the low E string).

Unfortunately, after I was done i noticed a few days later that there was buzzing on the open E string.
Went back and put the capo on the third fret position and remeasured the spacing and my .002 spacing was now .000 spacing. Never figured out why. Anyway... I suspect if you try this experiment with the capo on the third fret position you will find the string is touching the first fret. One cool trick is to use an ohm meter ( if you have one ) and measure the resistance from the first fret to the strings to see if their touching. If they are, then that's the problem.

Bottom line is I had to replace the nut. Not a big deal. It was easy getting the old nut out ( just a small tap with a wood block ). Cleaning out the gap also wasn't too bad using a narrow chisel.

Anyway.. good luck. Replacing the nut fixed my problem. Don't know why it didn't work the first time but I'm OK now.

Scamp
sjhouska
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:09 pm

Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by sjhouska »

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughtful replies and suggestions regarding my fret buzz problem.

I did replace the nut. To my pleasant surprise, the old nut came out with ease (even though I had slathered it with CA glue when I installed it) with a few taps.

The slight buzz (which had been present all along, but which became increasingly annoying with the passage of time, is gone. I've been playing the guitar with the new nut for about a week now, and I am really pleased with the tone and action on my guitar.

Other than some aesthetic issues due to this being my first guitar build and having had no prior experience with either woodworking or finishing, I am REALLY happy with my guitar!!!!!

This build has been a very rewarding experience. Thank you everyone for holding my hand and for your insightful and straight forward solutions for the errors I committed along the way.
tippie53
Posts: 7011
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Hegins, Pa
Contact:

Re: String/fret buzzing

Post by tippie53 »

here is a video that may help diagnose fretting issues.
Never assume anything fretting gives you 20 chances of getting it wrong LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClNM59Gaj64&t=2s
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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