Finishing Experiments

Questions and answers for beginners. If you have a question, so do most other people.
Diane Kauffmds
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

sjhouska wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 6:21 pm Trying to not reinvent the wheel or repeat previous posts in this thread, but I have a few questions about my upcoming efforts to finish my first ever kit build . . .

1) When using LMI's clear Aqua Coat on my East Indian rosewood back/sides and headstock veneer, how do I remove the saw dust after I sand between coats of Aqua Coat (I guess the same question for all sanding between coats during the finishing process)? I saw a vid link via the LMI site regarding applying Aqua Coat, and the fellow there used an air hose to blow the sanded Aqua Coat dust off. I don't have a compressor. Is there some economical, easy way to remove the sanded dust (e.g. tack cloth)?

2) this was covered previously in this thread but, to be sure, I can use Minwax wipe on polyurethane after using Zinsser shellac as a sealant, right? The directions on the Zinsser can say to NOT use Zinsser shellac under polyurethane but, rather, to use Bulls Eye SealCoat. Apparently, both Zinseer is also a "Bulls eye" product. instead of Zinzer shellac.

3) What is the Naptha used for? Is it a necessary step?

$) As someone looking for an easy-to-apply finish, at this point I am planning to use Minwax wipe on poly instead of Truoil, based upon something I read to the effect that Tru Oil is very thin. I therefore somehow assume (with all the attendant risks/consequences of making an assumption) that Minwax might be "thicker" and therefore offer more protection than Tru Oil. I will likely do 4 coats of the Minwax wipe on poly, and could easily do 4 of Tru Oil. Any input regarding my logic or lack thereof, or which direction I should go (Minwax wipe on poly v. Tru Oil, or some other product), will be greatly appreciated.

6) I believe that my neck is mahogany, brown in color (maybe even reddish?) but much lighter than the rosewood back and sides. I am thinking of staining the neck (but not the headstock which has a rosewood veneer) with a Minwax walnut stain before sealing, pore filling, etc. thoughts?

Thank you.
Naphtha is basically the active Ingredient in dry cleaning fluid and lighter fluid, without the petroleum distillates or other stuff. No. It's not a necessary step. However, as I tell all of my clients, naphtha is the best way to clean your guitar. It's also the best way to clean raw wood. It doesn't harm any finish. It doesn't raise the grain. And, it dissolves all kinds of icky stuff. You can find it in the paint department at any big box store.

When finishing, I blow the guitar off with compressed air and I clean it with Naphtha. Also, sometimes it's really hard to find very small imperfections, which become glaring when you apply finish. The tiny swirls from the vibration of a palm sander come to mind. Even after hand sanding with the grain, I inevitably leave one or two little spots.

You cannot see these critters without some contrast, like shine from finish. There's nothing more irritating than starting to finish, then having something like this glaring through the finish. When it happens, you have to sand the finish off, sand the offending booger, then start again.

I've found that Naphtha will show these imperfections. So, I clean my guitars with Naphtha after every sanding.

You can stain with something like minwax, but be aware that it's Oil based. It doesn't play well with all finishes. I prefer dye instead of stain for many reasons. There are powdered dyes and dye concentrate. There are 2 types, one that you mix with water. The other is alcohol soluble. I use the water soluble dyes. Alcohol dyes are nice too.

There are lots of beautiful colors in which to choose, including different browns. You can get a close approximation of EIR with a darker brown. I make my own different browns with several dye colors. But TransTint probably has the most "browns". You name it and you'll find it. It's not the cheapest stuff, but it goes a very loooong way!

Keda Dye makes liquid and powder dyes. I keep Keda in my shop. They have a small kit with 5 basic dyes, red, blue, yellow, brown, and black. If you go this route, make sure you know which you're getting, the alcohol or water soluble. It's up to you.

The brown is just that, basic brown. What I've done is made "dark" brown, by mixing brown with a little black. Works very well to color match. If you need reddish brown, add a little red.

I start with about 1/2 teaspoon of dye in about 8 ounces of hot tap water. I just use old Gatorade bottles. Cap it, shake it, test on your wood. If you want darker, add about 1/8 teaspoon of black. Test again. (Adding more brown won't darken it).

This sounds like a lot of work, but it's not. I prefer to mix my own colors, that way I can change them on the spot until I get what I'm after.

Just a good old dark brown will help you match your neck.

Yes, polyurethane will go over dry shellac.

Wood Dye - Aniline Dye 5 Color Kit - Wood Stain Kit https://a.co/d/eKu24qZ
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
sjhouska
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:09 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by sjhouska »

I plan to mask under my bridge before finishing, then remove the tape, sand lightly, and glue the bridge. Should I also mask the spruce top under the fretboard extension before finishing? --- Seems like the answer would be "yes" so that I can glue the fretboard extension to bare wood. But I interpret the posts in this thread to say that the fretboard extension either shouldn't be or doesn't need to be glued to bare wood. My kit has a dovetail neck joint.

As an fyi, I can't find naphtha here in Colorado, and I appreciate the input earlier in this thread that Coleman stove fuel is an acceptable alternative to naphtha.
Kevin Sjostrand
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
Location: Visalia, CA

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by Kevin Sjostrand »

We can't get naphtha in California anymore either but I was able to get a couple gallons shipped in last year so I'm good for a few years.
Yes if you plan to glue the fretboard extension down then mask off the area. Leave about an 1/8" of top that will have finish on it for the fretboard to sit on.
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by scamp »

I have a bolt on neck. What is the advantage to gluing down the fretboard to the body? Seems like it would just make it more difficult to take apart down the road if necessary. Does it make the fret board/body more rigid/stable? Should I do this?
tippie53
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Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by tippie53 »

if you don't glue it down your extension can rise causing buzzing and it will move
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I always glue down.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by scamp »

Do you mask off the area under the fret board or just glue it to the finished body ( in my case Tru Oil )?
It seems like gluing it to the finished guitar body won't work really well.
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

You need to glue it to unfinished wood, so mask off the fb extension area, until you get your finish on.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by scamp »

Thanks. What kind of glue do you recommend for this? I seem to recall you mentioning cold hide glue.
tippie53
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Hegins, Pa
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Re: Finishing Experiments

Post by tippie53 »

NEVER COLD HIDE GLUE
tite bond original is fine
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
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