Binding Install

Questions and answers for beginners. If you have a question, so do most other people.
tippie53
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Hegins, Pa
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Re: Binding Install

Post by tippie53 »

guitar builder often make their own the zinzer will work but it must be dewaxed . They have a clear shellac that is the one .
I am not a ca guy duco will work and allow redos . CA can be messy and if you get it on spruce turns it yellow. I use a scarf joint at the binding. Cut a slant so your ramp us down to start, when you get back home take a tweaser and pull the binding and purfling to the top of the original cut. That is your end . Then match the ramp.

NOTE think Down and In when applying tape on the binding.

Using duco I do what I can pull and push. Start at the neck block and apply about 4 inches of glue. Use a paper towel and wipe the biniding into the glue and start taping. This is where the push and pull come into play. Apply the glue to just past the upper bound. THEN PULL the binding and wipe into the glue and tape. Keep looking for gaping and apply some tape. Then apply the glue around just past the waist and you PUSH the binding into the channel and tape and wipe. Continue push and pull that helps to seat the binding and purfling.

this is the shellac you want https://www.lowes.com/pd/Zinsser-Bulls- ... oz/3449840
apply with brush or rag
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by scamp »

Few questions...

For the scarf joint you need to match the ramp.
Is there a good way to do this cut you can recommend?
Sounds a bit tricky.

Also...I assume you put the shellac on the just the top and not the sides and back of the guitar.
Is that correct?

Thanks
Scamp
TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Binding Install

Post by TEETERFAN »

I had to shellac the top first and the the edges of the top. Then I used a separate brush on the the sides. The reason is the shellac pulled dark pigment from the wood of the sides (ziricote) and would darken the shellac a bit. I was careful not to let that touch my light top. Perhaps that won’t be an issue with your side wood, be it would be a good idea to check that first. Of course you won’t have to do that with an aerosol product. Good luck!
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

scamp wrote: Sun Apr 24, 2022 9:35 am Few questions...

For the scarf joint you need to match the ramp.
Is there a good way to do this cut you can recommend?
Sounds a bit tricky.

Also...I assume you put the shellac on the just the top and not the sides and back of the guitar.
Is that correct?

Thanks
Scamp
I put wash coats of shellac in all cuts, prior to gluing. I also put it on adjacent areas, at least 1" in. That includes the back, sides, and top. I usually shellac the entire top to protect it. If pore filling, I use 2 coats of shelllac all over. These are the reasons:

1. Some glues don't play well.with certain woods. Examples are using ca glue on any spruce, mahogany, or maples. CA glue stains them strange colors.

2. Depending on which woods you choose, versus the color(s) of purfling, dark or bright colors can stain light colors of wood when sanding.

3. When dry, shellac makes wood fibers stiff. It makes it a lot easier to clean the channels.

4. I put shellac on the sides and back when pore filling is required. The pores should be sealed, prior to using pore filler. You'll find pore filling goes a lot easier with fewer coats of the filler.

As far as the scarf is concerned, I cut the wood at about a 12° angle with a jig, on my tablesaw. I turn the headstock piece over and test fit it. Usually the angles are good. If it needs tweaking, i secure it in a vice or I clamp the piece down, and use my low angle plane to adjust it. I've used my low angle 6" plane, or my low angle smoothing plane.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by scamp »

You suggest putting shellac in all the routed channels before gluing. I plan on using Duco glue. Is there any issue with adhesion if the channel has shellac in it with his glue?
tippie53
Posts: 7011
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
Location: Hegins, Pa
Contact:

Re: Binding Install

Post by tippie53 »

I only shellac the top when using duco I do that before routing. I don't think it matters as duco will stick to shellac
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by scamp »

Been playing with how to join the binding on the back accurately without too much of a seam under the heal.
Came up with the following small tool to help accurately cut the plastic binding at a right angle and also allow you to over cut it a bit and sand it down the rest of the way.
Built a very small miter box with a single ended utility blade as a cutter.
Used a razor saw to make the cut for the miter
Used double sticky tape to tape down the two guides on the sides of the binding.
IMG_2010.jpeg
Squared off the end of the mini miter box so you would use a sanding block on the end to sand down the binding material at a right angle.
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TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Binding Install

Post by TEETERFAN »

Stewmac, under binding instructions gas this tip, which works great with ivoroid (celluloid) binding:

“Binding paste is made from clean binding shavings placed in a small lidded jar and wet with enough acetone to form a gooey paste after it melts. The melted plastic is the glue — no other glue is required — and the joint will be invisible. Keep the jar tightly closed when not in use.“

Does a practically invisible fill.
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by scamp »

TEETERFAN wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:06 pm Stewmac, under binding instructions gas this tip, which works great with ivoroid (celluloid) binding:

“Binding paste is made from clean binding shavings placed in a small lidded jar and wet with enough acetone to form a gooey paste after it melts. The melted plastic is the glue — no other glue is required — and the joint will be invisible. Keep the jar tightly closed when not in use.“

Does a practically invisible fill.
Wow. That's an interesting solution. I think I will do some experiments.
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by scamp »

Completed gluing in the binding on the back of my guitar today and it came out great.
No gaps and and very happy with the results.
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and help with this.
Especially Diane's guidance that preparation is everything.
Used this input and spent a lot of time with a razor blade and file making sure the routed channels were clear and at the appropriate depth.
Also did a dry fit and made some modifications/tweeks.
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