Binding Install

Questions and answers for beginners. If you have a question, so do most other people.
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Binding Install

Post by scamp »

Thinking a bit ahead to installing the bindings.
Plan on using Duco cement with plastic binding material
A few things I could use feedback on.

Binding issue 1

I read that it is a good idea to run one side of the binding over a file to remove imperfections.
Is this necessary as I looked at the binding material and it looks pretty good?
Also, wouldn't it be better to run it between a flat sanding block and another flat block on a flat surface vs file?
I was thinking of doing nothing.

Binding issue 2

I am building an OM guitar kit.
The waist of the guitar is rather deep and has been identified by others as problematic in terms of keeping the binding in the routed channel with tape etc.
I read that some people use rubber bands ( available from Stewmac) or possibly a wide clamp at the waist with some kind of soft material to push up against the bindings.
I was thinking of the rubber band method over tape as belt and suspenders.
Anyone have any suggestions.

Binding issue 3

On the back of the guitar it appears you need to butt joint the binding at the neck ( it's not hidden like it is on the top of the guitar under the fret board). Any recommendations on the best way to cut this accurately and square without crushing the binding material etc. I was thinking of using a good fret cutter. Opinions?

Binding issue 4

Removing the tape and pulling out the spruce top material is mentioned a lot. I have seen suggestions to heat the tape with a hair dryer to soften the glue. Another one is to apply lacquer sanding sealer to the top before you rout the binding channel ( as it also help prevent tear out ). Anyone have experience with these methods or other suggestions?

Binding issue 5

I have seen a suggestion to tape the sides of the guitar before gluing the bindings to avoid a mess (glue getting over the sides). Sounds like a good idea but I am concerned the tape used to hold down the bindings won't stick to the tape well to the tape on the sides used for protection. I suspect this isn't an issue.

That's it for now.
Thanks in advance for your help.
carld05
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Forest Ranch, CA

Re: Binding Install

Post by carld05 »

Some suggestions:
#1
I file a small bevel on the inside corner of the binding to help it fit tighter in the slot.
#2
A clamp with cauls fit to the waist shape is how I have done it and I do a narrow waist shape with wood bindings. If the binding hasn't been bent perfectly, it needs that kind of encouragement. Cover the cauls with packing tape to prevent them from sticking to the glue.
#3
A really sharp chisel with the back polished so you can see if it is square to the binding is one way. you'll need to slip a something behind it to protect the guitar body.
#4
I seal the body with two coats of shellac before binding for several reasons but it also helps prevent grain pullout. Pulling the tape at an angle also helps a lot.
#5
Glue clean up hasn't been an issue for me as I finish sand the body after binding and that usually takes care of it.

The back can be a little difficult because of the 3 dimensional curves but sometimes I start there so any screw ups aren't so obvious if it's a shape or material I haven't done before.

Stick a whole lot of tape pieces to the edge of your workbench so you don't have to cut them off the roll as you go.

Have fun!
TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Binding Install

Post by TEETERFAN »

I brushed a couple coats of shellac on the top. Works great. Hair dryer definitely helps the tape release. Doesn’t need a lot of heat. Get the blue 3M tape at the auto parts store. I noticed the difference, compared to other painters tape.
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
carld05
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Forest Ranch, CA

Re: Binding Install

Post by carld05 »

I used to use the binding tape sold by SM or LMII, but lately have used filament strapping tape. Its a lot stronger and you can really get some pressure on the binding. If I can't get 3/4" rolls, I slice wider ones up on the bandsaw.
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by scamp »

All great suggestions.
This helps a lot.

You mention putting on a few coats of Shellac.
I purchased a spray can of Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac when I first started the project as they recommend you seal the contoured sanding disks with Shellac before you apply the sand paper ( so you can more easily remove the sandpaper later if need be).

Is this the shellac you use?
From what I have seen, most people seem to be applying the shellac with a rag vs a spray can.
Is there a Shellac you would recommend and how best to apply it.

Also...

Do you apply this just to the top or to the whole guitar?
And, do you apply it before you rout the binding or after?

My assumption is that you could do the whole guitar but it's most important you do the top as the rosewood is relatively tough. Either way, you will be sanding the whole guitar after binding anyway.

And.. you would apply the shellac before routing as from what I have heard, the shellac helps reduce tear out when routing.


Thanks
carld05
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Forest Ranch, CA

Re: Binding Install

Post by carld05 »

Your spray can will work fine. I use the pint can if Zinsser cause it's cheaper in the long run. I apply it with a foam brush.
I just used it on a real chippy Redwood top prior to routing and had no chips.
Since I use CA for attaching the binding I douse the groove with shellac before gluing too to prevent the CA from yellowing spruce especially end grain. Seal the rosette grooves too.I've had tinted epoxy leech into end grain too.
TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Binding Install

Post by TEETERFAN »

Shellac is a gift from the gods.
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I use this binding and purfling all of the time. 3M 233+ green tape, 3/4" wide, is my choice. It has just the right amount of stretch to pull the binding in and down.

All of the suggestions given are good. But, if you want a really nice and pro fit, your prep is
everything.


I made an instructional post on binding a guitar with ca glue, because there were several folks asking about it. But the channel prep for Duco is identical.

I think it will answer a lot of your questions. I'll find the post and give you the link.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

Here's the link to my binding post. I use ca glue in this post. But the prep is identical for Duco. The only difference is that you'll apply Duco to the channels before putting the binding in and you'll tape as go.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9151&hilit=Binding+with+ca+glue

If I'm not mistaken, I posted instructions on meeting the binding with pictures. I'll find the post and give you the link.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Binding Install

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I can't find that old post on meeting binding ends. What I'll do is find some scrap binding, and I'll have my husband take photos as I cut it to match. There are 2 ways:

1. Butt them together
2. Make matching 45° angles so that the ends slide over each other. I've used both and one is as good as the other. But I'll show you how I measure and cut it.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Post Reply