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Hello all,

I have become interested in building an acoustic guitar kit recently. This would be my first acoustic guitar build.

Do you have any recommendations for a type of guitar (i.e. OM, jumbo, dread, etc.) I should build as my first kit? Is a particular body style more difficult to build or to make a good sounding guitar? Also, what are your thoughts on going with a somewhat customized kit for my first guitar? Would you recommend going with an established model like a normal OM or Martin J? I really like the look of the Gibson J-185 but dislike the scale length, and Mr. Hall at Blues Creek Guitars told me that it would be possible to make a long scale J-185 kit.

I have been looking online and listening to youtube videos and my main contenders are the OM style guitar and the Small Jumbo (Martin J, Gibson J-185) style guitars. I would prefer not to build a dreadnought because I already have access to one, and I would like variety.

I almost always play with my fingers. These are some of the things I like in an acoustic guitar (somewhat in order of importance):

1. Bass: I would really prefer a guitar with a defined, loud bass.
2. 3D sound: I would prefer a guitar that has a 3D sound that envelopes you rather than just projects from the top forward.
3. Reverb: I would prefer a guitar that has a lot of reverb/shimmer/overtones. More is better!
4. Volume: I would like a guitar that can get decently loud with a light touch. I don't need super high volume (I only play at my apartment and I don't want to get evicted) but I want a guitar that can get enough volume to get a full, 3D sound in a small room.
5. Long scale: I seem to prefer the sound of long scale to short scale guitars.
6. Treble: I would like a guitar that has thinner rather than thicker treble. I (probably incorrectly) associate thicker treble with a lack of reverb or shimmer on the notes.

I have no illusions that I will end up with a guitar that will satisfy all my wants, I just don't want to end up with a guitar that I hate.

Sorry for the huge text, and thanks for any replies.

Updated 7/24/21: Bought 25.4" scale J-185 kit w/ Red Spruce top, Cherry B&S, and Mahogany neck from Blues Creek Guitars. Finished and strung up the guitar. Made a ton of mistakes, listed below for future reference and any beginners:

1. Not caring too much about alignment when gluing in the neck block. Made for a very interesting time when I had to set the center line of the neck. I needed a shim (a/k/a popsicle stick) to get the neck to swing enough to have an acceptably centered neck.

2. Not checking the trueness of my sanding surfaces and tools before using them.

3. Not having a clean workspace. I have a lot of dings and scratches that I accumulated on the guitar unnecessarily because I left my guitar around my tools and sandpaper.

4. Not having something to hold the guitar parts while I built it. One of my biggest mistakes was that I didn't have something to hold the guitar in place. This was a recipe for numerous slips of the chisel and was also one of the main reasons why I wasn't able to sand straight for a while.

5. Not using (and not knowing what is) the correct tool for the job. I cut my binding channels using a gramil meant for violin purfling. A problem with that gramil was that it has a pointed tip and no straight surface. This caused my binding channels to not have straight edges, which gave me huge problems as I cut the channels with a chisel. Compounded with the fact that I did not have something to hold the guitar, it contributed to the mess that are my binding channels.

6. Not measuring for some steps. It seems like in almost every step one should measure twice and then cut. I did not take any measurements for some steps, such as when I was cutting my binding channels. I just relied on a eyeballing and thought the gramil would do everything for me.

7. Not having sharp enough tools. I let my tools go dull quite often and that lowered the precision of my cutting by an enormous amount. A lot of gouges in the guitar and my hands were the result of excessive force used to cut the wood.

8. Not understanding wood and humidity. My top cracked twice while I was building the guitar. That's because I didn't understand the importance of humidity and didn't care about storing and working in a space with proper humidity during the winter months.

9. Having somewhat of a miserly attitude regarding tools. This kit was the single biggest financial outlay I had ever made for a musical instrument. For example, my current acoustic guitar is a Yamaha FG800. This huge financial outlay made me want to penny pinch whenever I could, and that meant spending a minimum amount on tools and getting cheap tools whenever I could. I think it is possible to get creative and find cheap alternatives to tools, but having a miserly attitude and always trying to get by with the minimum is not conducive to a building a good guitar.

10. Sanding without thinking. I had major problems while sanding my neck. As stated above, I didn't find a straight sanding surface until I had done quite of sanding on the surface of the neck. That meant my truss rod channels were too shallow, and I also didn't think while trying to deepen the truss rod channel. Unfortunately, when I tried to deepen the channel I used sandpaper and was freehanding the sanding, and I ended up with a deeper and wider channel. I had to use a bunch of hacks (gluing on veneer to the truss rod itself) to get somewhat of an acceptable fit.

I also didn't find a good way to sand the top of the neck. The multiple problems compounded upon themselves. Without a straight sanding surface, and without something to hold the neck in place, I constantly had problems at the ends of the neck. I had to glue veneers to the top of the neck as I took too much material off the neck.

One of my biggest failures was sanding without thinking while trying to align the front bout of the body with the neck. I inadvertently created a substantial dip in one of the most sensitive areas of the guitar, which already had a crack! I should have trued the neck before doing any sanding. I glued some veneer to create a shim/brace in that area. I will have to see if it will hold up structurally.

11. Not knowing how to fix gouges and dings. I didn't know how to fix gouges and dings on the faces of the guitar. I just moved on because I wanted to progress to the next steps just to have a finished guitar, but the guitar suffered due to my ignorance.

12. Not sanding enough prior to finishing. I just gave the guitar a light sand, somewhat freehand, prior to finishing. I did not know that I needed a much more thorough sanding with a block to get a good surface. My finish suffered tremendously because the prep work was subpar.

13. Gluing clamping caul onto bridge plate while gluing bridge. I made a caul from a piece of 2x4 pine, and I did not think through carefully enough to protect the caul from the glue. Because caul was made of wood, the glue (titebond) also binded the caul to the bridge plate. Thankfully I got it off by putting a 3/16 drill bit into the pinholes and heating the drill bit up with an iron. I was pressing down on the bit a little and I was able to get a razor blade in between the caul and the bridge plate as the iron heated up the glue. Next time I will definitely tape the caul and the bridge plate prior to clamping.

14. I may have glued the bridge about 1/16" too forward. I was having intonation problems ever since I strung the guitar up and when I measured the distance from the nut to the contact point at the saddle I found that it was consistently about 1/16" too forward. How did I make such a mistake? I can't remember that clearly. Retracing my memory, the below are some candidates:

a. Measuring the scale length without a "nut" to stop the straight edge from moving.
b. Measuring the scale length from the nut to the edges of the saddle, NOT the 1 and 6 E string saddle locations.
c. Not marking the bridge positions with tape, etc, and not securing the bridge while I drilled the pilot holes.
d. Drilling the pilot holes first with a smaller bit then using a larger 3/16" bit. The 3/16" bit fills the hole and can't move around much, but a smaller bit can.

Also, my saddle leans backwards towards the bridge pins. When I lower the saddle height by sanding the bottom, the contact point moves forward. It seems like sanding the nut and saddle to get the setup the way I want will change the scale length bit by bit.

Thankfully I still have enough saddle that I could get better intonation by sanding the front of the saddle, so that the contact point is in the middle of the saddle.

Even with mistakes and generally bad build quality guitar sound exceeded all my expectations.

OK, that's quite a list for a first try (oh, there will be more).
My first was a Martin Jumbo from John, Rosewood. He had a mold too.
One of the latest was a J-200 shape that I milled the wood for, Walnut. The 200 is more of that rounder fuller sound I think you are describing, but it's rounder and fuller in shape too.
Anyway, Mr. Hall is the go to source for all things to get you started.

carld05 wrote:OK, that's quite a list for a first try (oh, there will be more).
My first was a Martin Jumbo from John, Rosewood. He had a mold too.
One of the latest was a J-200 shape that I milled the wood for, Walnut. The 200 is more of that rounder fuller sound I think you are describing, but it's rounder and fuller in shape too.
Anyway, Mr. Hall is the go to source for all things to get you started.

Thanks for the reply! I do understand that I will likely get none of what I want, and a good job may be having a guitar that doesn't fall apart and intonates correctly, without 1 inch action!

Would you recommend going with an established model (i.e. Martin OM, Martin J) or would it be okay to go with a long scale J-185, if I get it from Mr. Hall?

There is so much to know (see the recent thread on intonation) that there is no way you can dial in any one item let alone all those items on your first. Something to remember is that someone like Martin has built over 2 million guitars and they have a Martin sound. If you want the Martin sound, build like they do.

I heve a 1974 000-28 which has exceptional sound for any era let alone the 70's. I built a 000-18 12 fret but added 5/8" to the body depth and they sound almost identical across all strings. After 9 guitars, I still could not predict that.

I think an acceptable goal is to successfully make a guitar that is easy to play - anything else is a bonus.

Good luck, and I can't recommend John enough - he will make you any kit you want. I made an oak J-185 from him and it is a great size.

Ed

You might consider building a deep-body OM, if John would be willing to put together a custom kit for you with wider sides and taller head and heel blocks. You *may* get more bass response out of it. I added about 1/2" to the body depth of my 4th guitar (see http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/board/vi ... &t=8894&hi ) and the bass is noticeably more pronounced than in the other OM-body guitars I built.

Of course. I also invented my own bracing pattern for the top as well, so who knows how much of the increased bass response is due to the body depth and how much is due to the top bracing. At any rate, I don't think an extra 1/2" of body depth would hurt anything, if you want to try it.

I would avoid building a cutaway body, if you want to keep things as simple as possible.

Keep in mind that nobody builds just one guitar :-) so if this one doesn't come out as well as you'd hoped, the next one may come closer.

If John can set you up with a long scale J-185 I'd go for that, since that is an instrument that you are interested in, and would fill the bulk of your desired attributes.

John's kits are excellent as is his support.

Part of the joy of building is to be able to create something that doesn't look, feel, and sound like a mass produced guitar.

Many of the specifications OP lists are beyond anyone's capability to predict, much less how the builder treats the project. If OP is unwilling to being satisfied with however his kit turns out, I think he's better off shopping for a finished instrument. No one can predict how a pile of parts will sound after they turn into an instrument. ESPECIALLY a first project.

As I mentioned, I built a deep body 12 fret 000-18. The only problem is that no standard case will work so you are stuck with a custom case at $300++. Mine has been on a stand since 2013 and I have never needed a case. Building a popular shape will mean a case is readily available.

Ed

ruby@magpage.com wrote:There is so much to know (see the recent thread on intonation) that there is no way you can dial in any one item let alone all those items on your first. Something to remember is that someone like Martin has built over 2 million guitars and they have a Martin sound. If you want the Martin sound, build like they do.

I heve a 1974 000-28 which has exceptional sound for any era let alone the 70's. I built a 000-18 12 fret but added 5/8" to the body depth and they sound almost identical across all strings. After 9 guitars, I still could not predict that.

I think an acceptable goal is to successfully make a guitar that is easy to play - anything else is a bonus.

Good luck, and I can't recommend John enough - he will make you any kit you want. I made an oak J-185 from him and it is a great size.

Ed

Thank you for your reply! It seems I may have been over thinking this. Maybe it might be best just to get any kit and get a start on this hobby. I think I was nervous because this would be the most expensive outlay I have ever made for an instrument (especially including tools), and because of the high degree of risk involved.

MaineGeezer wrote:You might consider building a deep-body OM, if John would be willing to put together a custom kit for you with wider sides and taller head and heel blocks. You *may* get more bass response out of it. I added about 1/2" to the body depth of my 4th guitar (see viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8894&hi ) and the bass is noticeably more pronounced than in the other OM-body guitars I built.

Of course. I also invented my own bracing pattern for the top as well, so who knows how much of the increased bass response is due to the body depth and how much is due to the top bracing. At any rate, I don't think an extra 1/2" of body depth would hurt anything, if you want to try it.

I would avoid building a cutaway body, if you want to keep things as simple as possible.

Keep in mind that nobody builds just one guitar :-) so if this one doesn't come out as well as you'd hoped, the next one may come closer.

That sounds interesting! I'll have to ask Mr. Hall about the deep body OM.
Would a deep body OM be okay for a total beginner? Especially when compared to a long scale J-185.
Also, I have to mention that I live in an apartment. Would it be possible to build any kit with basic hand tools and maybe something like a small router?