New thread on neck angle set

[David L]

I decided to start a new thread which is a continuation from the thread from omar. I didn't think it would have been fair to omar to continue this on his thread because this may get a little deep. I feel that now would be the proper time to come out of the closet, no, no, no, not that closet I'm as straight as Cochise's favorite arrow. I've been married to my wife for 23 years and have a 14 year old daughter, so let's clear that up right now.
The closet that I'm referring to is that I don't actually know how to play a guitar, no, no, no, I don't mean that I just really suck at playing the guitar, I really don't have the slightest clue as to where to place the fingers to make different notes, chords, etc, I dont know an E-flat from a G-sharp, I just never learned how, never wanted to.
I also understand that this puts me at a distinct disadvantage at building a guitar especially at the set up stage which is where I am at Now. I would also like to express my gratitude to everyone who has helped me up to this point and for the feedback that I received when I posted this problem on omars thread, now, having said that, I am now more confused than prior the posting on omars thread. Someone suggested adjusting the neck angle by flossing the cheeks, I don't understand how this would work as the neck is already glued to the body (I'm not saying that it won't work, just that I don't understand how without remvoing the neck)
I would appreciate it if some of ya'll could lower yourselves down to my level (kindergarten or maybe first grade) and help me get a better understanding of what I need to do. Thanks!

David L

[darren]

With a bolt on neck, if the fretboard extension is glued down, and you loosen the neck attachment hardware, you should be able to flex the neck forward (in relation to the body), opening up the neck joint by the heel, enough to slip some sand paper in there to do your flossing. We can find Ken's description from the other week in another thread, he probably 'splained it better. :)

I don't recall omar's thread, but if it has to do with a dovetail joint, then you're right, it must be adjusted before gluing.

hope this helps

[tippie53]

A neck set no matter bolt on or Dovetail still requires that the planes of adjustment are the cheeks that contact the neck block area . Think ACE
A angle establish the neck angle so the plane of the fretboard is correct to the saddle location . With the fretboard
off you want to see 1/16 to 1/8 inch off the top when the top of the neck is flat to the top. Or if the neck is above
the top , you want to see that amount of difference from the neck plane as it comes on the top.
C Center line Once the angle is correct you will check the center from the neck to the top. I shoot for 1/8 in at
the tail end of the guitar.
E Elevation once the angle and centerline are dialed in you can then drop the neck down . This would be more for
a Dovetail . Be sure on the Dovetail to keep the lower part of the neck tenon working the joint so it pulls the
neck tight against the body. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... 76l0.1l1l0
here is the link to doevtail neck setting. The only difference with the bolt on is the lock part of the joint.

[johnnparchem]

David now that I think of it you have a dovetail joint. You can not floss the cheeks. When I looked at the pictures it looked to me like like your neck angle could be very close. Given that you are not going to reset the neck, I suggest putting the rulers away and stringing it up. At the worst from the pictures I saw is your saddle might end up slightly lower than the ideal for a new guitar.

If you still insist on checking the angle worry about the 1st through 14 fret as the body will affect the fretboard angle on higher numbered frets. The fret board should be measured when it is flat. If you have any gaps in the middle frets use the truss rod to remove this relief before you measure.

On my first guitar after I thought I was finished with setup I took it to a local guitar shop. The repair person there encouraginly gave me a bunch of free advise.

[kencierp]

All the advice is good and certainly well meaning --- but you really, really, really need to take your finished guitar to a reputable, information sharing repair person or guitar maker and have them do a real time assessment of what you have there and what needs to be done (if at all) to make that guitar an "enjoyable" user friendly instrument. Anything thing short of that is not fair to you or the instrument. There is a quantum difference between a guitar that simply does not buzz and one that is tweaked properly for action and intonation. make this part of your learning experience --- from a musician's stand point perhaps the most important bits of guitar making knowledge.

[David L]

As best as I can remember I did follow John's ACE directions when I set the neck because it is indeed a dovetail. I do remember puking out quite a few expletives during the process but I remember being fairly satisfied with the numbers once the smoke stopped coming out of my ears. Perhaps through the finishing process some of my dimensions adjusted slightly.
I'm still not clear about where the straight edge should be in relation to the bridge when I lay the straight on top of the frets. I'm not going to worry about it on this one as I'm going to do as John P suggested and just string her up and see how it goes but it is a concern for future.
Finding a repair type person shouldn't be a problem as I only live 30 minutes from New Orleans (if I cant find one here in Slidell). I agree with Ken that the advantage of being able to lay your hands on something grossly outweighs words and pictures.
Building this guitar has been a lot of fun and sharing the process with you guys has made it more enjoyable (and helpful) but I have to say that this set-up phase of the process has me frustrated, aggravated, disappointed and not so enjoyable.

David L

[Ben-Had]

As best as I can remember I did follow John's ACE directions when I set the neck because it is indeed a dovetail. I do remember puking out quite a few expletives during the process but I remember being fairly satisfied with the numbers once the smoke stopped coming out of my ears. Perhaps through the finishing process some of my dimensions adjusted slightly.
I'm still not clear about where the straight edge should be in relation to the bridge when I lay the straight on top of the frets. I'm not going to worry about it on this one as I'm going to do as John P suggested and just string her up and see how it goes but it is a concern for future.
Finding a repair type person shouldn't be a problem as I only live 30 minutes from New Orleans (if I cant find one here in Slidell). I agree with Ken that the advantage of being able to lay your hands on something grossly outweighs words and pictures.
Building this guitar has been a lot of fun and sharing the process with you guys has made it more enjoyable (and helpful) but I have to say that this set-up phase of the process has me frustrated, aggravated, disappointed and not so enjoyable.

David L

This pic is not the best example but should be good for explanation:

Lay the straight edge on the frets, run it up to the bridge, if it hits the bridge as in the pic the guitar is under set and the action will be high (this guitar needs a neck reset, that is a new bridge I made for it, the guitar is a 50's Kay Southern Jumbo). If it skims over the top of the bridge (ideally 1/16th inch) your neck set is about perfect and if it is over 1/8" your probably over set and action will be low and buzzing. Remember as Running Dog said the neck must be flat when making the measurements.

[tippie53]

that explains it as good as anyone here. Good pics ben-had

[David L]

I agree John, very shortly here I'm about to go check the flatness of my neck and make truss rod adjustments to bring it flat if it isn't and then see where I'm at. I could make a really long list of things that I am (mostly negative) but you wouldn't find quitter anywhere on the list.

David L

[David L]

As suggested by some forum members a truss rod adjustment was necessary to flatten out the fretboard, the results were pretty good but not perfect, I got it dead flat down (or up) to about the last four frets, the pictures will show the results of the gaps between the straight edge and the last few frets of the FB extention.I have a bunch of useless blurry pictures so I wont post them but as you can see the the last fret has a .025 thousandths gap between the straight edge and the fret and the gap goes progressively to nothing after the fourth fret working in the direction toward the nut. While keeping the straight edge flat on the flat part of FB and slide it toward the bridge it actually clears the top of the bridge by about .006 thousandths. The pictures are kinda deceiving and there is actually a gap of approximately .006 between the straight edge an the top of the bridge.

David L