First kit advice

[Tomcat]

Just joined the board,. My first post. Hi everyone!

I'm looking at various kit options for my very very first instrument. Some of the considerations include:

Very little woodworking experience. I did a little cabinetry decades ago, and really nothing since.

Very few tools at hand. I expect Il need to pick some up along the way in this first project, but In not going to drop many hundreds each on big power tools - bandsaw, jointer, table saw, etc. Kits save you a lot of this, of course. I want to see how much I enjoy the process before starting to buy a lot of expensive equipment. If I can get by with mostly hand tools and borrowing a little time in a friend's better equipped shop, so much the better.

I have a nice old 1972 Yamaha FG-180 that gives me a nice mellow sound, and that's the sound I'd be looking for., as opposed to a bright jangly one.

I don't know much about the different types of steel string guitars. I understand that OOO, OO, and OM are smaller than a full dreadnought, as is my FG, but I don't know how any of these relate to each other. Anyone have a link for a primer on the subject?

I haven't set a specific budget, but I don't feel ready to take on a big expensive one like a Blues Creek (even with the kind of support John regularly offers on the board - maybe next time?) or a higher line StewMac. Not just for fear of wasting money if I can't pull it off, but I'd hate to waste beautiful wood.

So, some options I'm considering:

StewMac has some lower-level kits with the full box already built. The materials seem good also. ~$400

Pango makes several such kits, but the back and sides are laminate or perhaps plywood. About half the price of the above. Also mixed reviews on the craftsmanship. ~$200 .

There are several ukelele kits by various brands under $100. The box isn't prebuilt, which is a lower-risk opportunity to learn how to do more steps on the first try. On the other hand, although I briefly had a baritone uke as a kid, I'm not likely to be so interested in playing the result.

Any comments, suggestions, or questions are welcome!

[Kevin Sjostrand]

Howdy Tomcat (would it be Tom?)
Welcome to the forum.
I built my first guitar, a kit from LMI 17 years ago.
I was a knifemaker for 20 years with not much wood working experience. The kit was great, pretty much everything supplied to build the guitar. Tuners, strings not included. Back in those days the kit was around $300.

The sides were bent. The top and back joined, and a rosette installed. The neck was mostly done but enough left to customize the headstock shape, neck profile, etc.

For me it was a good start and I enjoyed the whole process. I still play that guitar today.

I didn't need much in the way of special tools, but some things like a fret crowning file.

From what you're saying something like this level would probably be a good start for you. Enough of the work left to be done so you learn some of the process, make some of your own choices, and you'll feel like you built a guitar not just assembled the parts.....if that makes since.

LMI is gone. Your best bet for a kit like this is going to be John Hall or Stewmac. Consider the cost of the kit versus purchasing a high quality instrument, which you can end up with and the invaluable experience you will have.

Many of us on this forum started out this way and jumped right in to building more guitars doing all or almost all of the processes. It kind of gets in your blood.

Some build one and that's enough, but most keep going

I would recommend a kit like this. You can get by with hand tools and even crown frets using a regular file and sand papers.

There are lots of woods out there to choose from. Stewmac kits will be limited to 2 or 3 wood types. John can offer you more variety and more custom choices.

Wood combinations can affect tone. In general for a more mellow sound softer woods like walnut paired with cedar or a redwood top can give you this. But there many factors that can affect the sound. Indian rosewood with redwood I've found is a great combination for a strong but warmer sound.

Anyway others I'm sure will chime in. Everything costs more these days but it will be worth it I believe to spend the $$ and enjoy the process.

Again welcome. Let us know which way you go and take us along on rhe ride. We'll help you along as much as we can.

Kevin in California
Ps. Where do you hail from?

[jread]

Welcome to the forum. You'll find a lot of good info here.

I'd suggest browsing this forum and see if any of the projects or guitar sizes call out to you. You can go to a guitar shop and play various sizes and see what you like. The sizes you mentioned, 0, 00, 000, OM, and Dreadnought are Martin standard sizes. Other brands have various sizes and often use different names such as Gibson Jumbo, etc.
Here's the reference page I use to get exact specs on Martin sizes:

https://www.maurysmusic.com/Martin_by_Body_Size

For kits, you can go with your price point, but these materials are pretty expensive and getting more expensive all the time. Even all scratch builds can cost hundreds of dollars in materials and with a kit you are paying for labor costs to do some of the upfront work and also putting together a full package along with support as well.

I started with a Kit from Blues Creek Guitars and was pretty dang thrilled with it. You won't find higher quality stuff and John is a national treasure. I vote that you give him a call and see what he can put together for your price requirements. The $400 Stewmac kit you mentioned with the body already complete looks pretty nice to be honest. I think they are a great company and offer quality products and have great service. If your goal is to have nice sounding guitar, I'm sure it will be great.


That body-built kit looks like you could finish it up with hand tools and you'll have plenty to learn as well. You'll need to shape and set the neck, glue on the fingerboard, bridge, overlay, install frets, finish the wood, and do a setup. I'd say that's a great option for you if you just want to go w/ basic hand tools and get to finished, solid wood instrument, and see if you like this craft. Other kits where you need to assemble the body, glue on braces, etc. will require investments in some pricy items like body form, clamps, even if the sides are bent and top and back joined. Then you'll need to learn to route the binding channels and install that too. But that's a great way to go if you are trying to learn to build from scratch but don't have the bigger tools yet. So, it's really up to you on deciding if this is a journey in learning to build guitars or you just want to finish up the mostly completed kit.

Good luck and keep us posted on your journey!

[Diane Kauffmds]

There are several places that have various kits. John Hall here on the forum, at Blues Creek Guitars, has top quality kits. Stewmac has kits. Unfortunately, LMI went out of business. I suggest you do some googling. Before buying from anyone, I'd check back here to make sure they're reputable. There's a place based in Georgia, that periodically changes its name, that you should steer clear of.

We're definitely here to help. The only "dumb" question is the one unasked. Have fun and relax. You'll find all of our members to be really great folks.

[Tomcat]

Thanks to all three for your stories and your expressions of support.

Jread, thanks for the link on Martin sizes. My FG is closer to a full dreadnought than I thought - compared to the D-14 fret, it's actually got a wider lower bout but not quite as deep. Perhaps the latter is why sometimes dreadnoughts I've tried in shops have felt bulkier than I'm used to. Not that I just want to clone the FG (but with solid wood), necessarily - just that I like it's general sound and feel.

Another question on sizes - I assume a larger guitar can yield more power (assuming it's set up well, etc) but is there a general trend toward lesser bass response for smaller sizes, all else being equal?

I know everyone is recommending the Blues Creek, but for my very first try, I'm not sure I am ready to sink that kind of money into it until I feel more confident in some of the skills. I hope I get there, but not for my first try. Put together right, I'm sure they would make a superior instrument, but for now I'd take simply making something playable and see if I enjoy the process enough to inspire me further into the craft.

There are a lot of skills to learn at many levels and the reason I'm thinking about starting with a pre-made box is to focus on learning some of the skills needed for the later stages on a first go-round - setting the neck, finishing the wood, fitting it all out, etc. - and aim to try my hand on a second try at what seems like more difficult skills, like tuning the braces to get the sound you want, marquetry beyond simple purfling, etc. If I can get there, it would be great to graduate to building from scratch entirely - learning how to find the right piece of wood to cut and glue a top or bottom from book-matched halves, bending the sides, carving a neck from a blank...

I have had the book _Guitarmaking_ by Cumpiano and Natelson for awhile now, and read through the process a couple of times. [A local maker gave me a good review of it recently - what does anyone here think of it?] It's from this that I mentally divide the skills into ones I think I could pick up (or pick back up) quickly; things that I should probably practice on awhile on pieces not intended for the project first, like practicing marquetry on decorative boxes before cutting into my fingerboard or rosette; and things that could take much experience and trial and error to really master, like tuning the braces.

That being said, the idea of a uke kit option would be primarily to go straight to a middle level of learning, but thinking that working with the smaller pieces and lesser tension might give me the practice with a lower level of difficulty on my first try. Has anyone here done both and can tell me if this is actually true? If not then I'll stick with a guitar kit for sure.

Jread also suggests calling John to try to work out something within my price range. But if I'm looking for a premade box, that sounds like more work by him and therefore more cost than the kits I see on his website. On the other hand, there might be savings to be had by using more common woods like maple and walnut instead of rosewood and mahogany, which I would be fine with. I've seen a number of articles about using such woods.

Sorry I keep writing novels on here - just so much to think about!

[Diane Kauffmds]

I "disapproved" the duplicate post. If you're notified of the disapproval, don't sweat it.

[phavriluk]

A first project is no place to use premium anythings - - - wood, hardware, finish. The price goes up for the cosmetics, not the acoustics or durability. If the underlying reason to build rather than buy is to obtain a less expensive instrument by building one, I think that won't work. And one instrument is an introduction to this seductive world, by the time you've completed a half-dozen you'll have addressed most of the questions.

That prebuilt-body series offered by Stew-Mac offers one very large economic advantage, no need to buy a mold to assemble the body. These things ain't cheap and are a major expense fore a kit builder. If that Stew-Mac body comes with the binding installed, then the cost of a binding router and the unique tools and jigs the router needs is also avoided. It may be a good idea to go that way to see how you like the other dozens of tasks that need to be addressed in a build. If you are pleased, then your next project could include that mold and a binding tool set; if not then you won't have spent a big lump of cash that is not directly part of the instrument.

[Diane Kauffmds]

Dreadnoughts are known for more bass. The dynamics of a guitar is simply exciting the air molecules in the box. The larger the box area, the more air it has resulting in more projection and potential bass.

Having said that, there are ways to increase the projection and bass in smaller bodies. There are no steadfast building rules. It's good to follow a tried and true plan for a first build. If you get bitten by the guitar building bug, all bets are off.

Just increasing the depth of a smaller bodied guitar can yield more projection, and bass. Bracing changes can significantly change the sound of a guitar. The choice of woods, in various combinations can change the sound. No two guitars will ever sound the same, even if you make identical sizes and woods, because no 2 pieces of wood are the same. Just changing the wood used for bracing, can change the sound.

I personally prefer an OM sized guitar, with more depth. An OM is a 000 sized guitar with scalloped bracing. 000's aren't scalloped. Listen to both models.

People tend to gravitate towards a mahogany sound, or to rosewood type sound. In between these are myriad woods that gravitate towards one or the other. Rosewood is brighter, more focused; mahogany is more mellow and darker sounding.

My suggestion is for you to visit a local music shop or two, and try out various sizes of guitars made with various woods. See what you like, and start there. YouTube can be helpful too. Listen to many makes/models with various bracing schemes. You'll hear the differences. I think you'll find that you gravitate towards a certain size and certain woods.

[Diane Kauffmds]

BTW, don't overlook cherry. Cherry makes a fantastic guitar paired with a spruce. It's also economical.

[tippie53]

I suggest to keep the first kit simple and learn the process. Pick a kit that suits your playing style. What sets us apart at Blues Creek is the customer service so be sure you have that before you buy. Also know that often building techniques are not that difficult , its about the body geometry So check out Bluescreek youtubes. We are here to help.