Finishing Update

Questions and answers for beginners. If you have a question, so do most other people.
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Update

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I've figured out Aquacoat.

1. Sand everything to 220g, making sure you've gotten all boogers from things like random orbital sanders, scratches, etc, out.

2. Clean well with Naphtha.

3. Apply 2 really good coats of 1# or 2# shellac. It's really important to get it into all pores. I use a shellac brush. Let it sit until sandable.

4. Lightly sand the shellac just to remove nibs. Clean with Naphtha.. I've found that it doesn't have to be clean room clean. But, I go over it well with Naphtha.

5. Apply Aquacoat in small amounts. You want it thin. I prefer to use a paper towel. I apply in a small circular motion. If you've applied it right, it'll be ready to sand in about 45min to an hour.
If you start to sand and you see white stuff in the pores STOP! This means it's not dry! Don't keep sanding unless you want to go back to square one. At this point, if you catch it immediately, you can clean the white stuff out with Naphtha. This is an indication that you've applied it too thick.

A little goes a long way.

6. When dry, sand lightly with 220g. Sand just enough to remove swirls and marks in the Aquacoat.

7. Repeat as necessary. I usually use 2 to 3 coats of Aquacoat, depending on the wood.

I hope this helps. Some folks may have found other ways to use Aquacoat. This is what works for me. I use Aquacoat on almost all of my guitars.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
carld05
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:19 pm
Location: Forest Ranch, CA

Re: Finishing Update

Post by carld05 »

Thanks Diane. I've been struggling with Aquacoat for years. Gave up after two guitars and went back to epoxy. I'm presently working on two guits and decided to try AC again. Three coats and still struggling (Black Walnut and White oak). Your schedule has me going "Aha! That's what I've been doing wrong...no sealer, too thick, naptha, naptha, naptha." Time to sand them down and try again.
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Update

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

carld05 wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:08 pm Thanks Diane. I've been struggling with Aquacoat for years. Gave up after two guitars and went back to epoxy. I'm presently working on two guits and decided to try AC again. Three coats and still struggling (Black Walnut and White oak). Your schedule has me going "Aha! That's what I've been doing wrong...no sealer, too thick, naptha, naptha, naptha." Time to sand them down and try again.
Walnut, and oak in particular, have deep pores. It'll take more coats. Definitely, sealing the wood first is a must. I made the same mistakes on my first guitars.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Finishing Update

Post by scamp »

Diane

Your step by step method on how to use Aqua Coat is very helpful and informative. Thanks.
Hopefully on my next guitar I will follow it and not suffer the frustration I did with my first experience using it.

When I used it I read the instructions from the manufacturer and they encouraged to " generously" work the product into the grain using old credit card, fingers etc. I also watched a video on how to finish a guitar using Tru Oil based on a method from Eric Schaefer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvLL9fzHvRU ) where they used Aqua Coat and more or less liberally applied it by rubbing it into the grain using a cotton rag. I used this method on a scrap piece of oak veneered plywood as a test to try it out and it seemed to work OK so this is what I did.

It's interesting that after I had problems with pore filling on my actual guitar I went back and looked at the Tru Oil application video based on the Eric Schaefer method more closely and sure enough, you could see that the pores were not filled on their end product guitar and they just lived with it.

Seems what is very important is vigorously working a thin coat into the wood using a paper towel or some material that has some texture to it. Watched a video by Robert O' Brien from LMI that shows how he applies it very thinly with a shop towel using this method ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sE9JewE2pc ).

My guess is that generously applying the product and using credit cards etc. works for large open pores like you find in kitchen cabinets etc. but for small deep pores in rose wood etc. doesn't work well. Using less Aqua Coat and rubbing it in with a paper towel is better at working the product into these small holes/crevices' . I may do a few experiments to see how this method works and report my findings in a future post.
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Update

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

It's been my experience, after pore filling small and huge pores, that Aquacoat is best applied in thin layers. I made the big mistake of following the instructions too.

It just didn't work for me. I used a credit card, and even a small silicone squeegee; nothing worked until I changed to thin coats. Also, I like to really fill my pores, so that the end product is smooth as glass. The better the prep, the better your finish will look. Prep is everything.

So, even if it takes 10 thin layers with the AC, I'm I do it. I figure it this way: if I use a heavier coat, it'll take 3x as long, or more, for it to harden. In the meantime, I can apply 2 to 3 thin coats. I suppose it equals out, but the AC is much harder to sand when it's applied heavily. There's nothing wrong with applying Aquacoat heavier. Just be aware that your drying time will dramatically increase.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
scamp
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:19 pm

Re: Finishing Update

Post by scamp »

Diane Kauffmds wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:48 am It's been my experience, after pore filling small and huge pores, that Aquacoat is best applied in thin layers. I made the big mistake of following the instructions too.

It just didn't work for me. I used a credit card, and even a small silicone squeegee; nothing worked until I changed to thin coats. Also, I like to really fill my pores, so that the end product is smooth as glass. The better the prep, the better your finish will look. Prep is everything.

So, even if it takes 10 thin layers with the AC, I'm I do it. I figure it this way: if I use a heavier coat, it'll take 3x as long, or more, for it to harden. In the meantime, I can apply 2 to 3 thin coats. I suppose it equals out, but the AC is much harder to sand when it's applied heavily. There's nothing wrong with applying Aquacoat heavier. Just be aware that your drying time will dramatically increase.
I think you have it nailed. Thin coats worked in well using a paper towel. Did some experiments on some porous woods and thicker coats don't fill the pores nearly as well as thin coats. It seems like with the thin coats you get more friction between the paper towel and the wood as you work it in and for some reason this helps fill in the pores. Thick coats seem to make the applicator slide over the surface and as a result the Aqua Coat just sits on the surface.
TEETERFAN
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Location: Kansas City, MO

Re: Finishing Update

Post by TEETERFAN »

I had a quick Aqua Coat question. Over time, it seems like anything sinks into pores. I have prefinished oak floors that the finish has sunk into the pores after 20 years and it is some tough epoxy (or catalyzed poly) that acetone won’t even touch. Anyway, does Aqua Coat do much shrinking over 5-10 years? That is, starting with 100% filled pores. And does the top coat effect things (nitro or shellac)? I bought some Aqua Coat and it seems very similar to artist’s acrylic medium, which softens with both lacquer thinner and alcohol, so I am curious what the real world experience over time is. Thanks!
Kevin Doty
Kansas City
Kevin Sjostrand
Posts: 3712
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
Location: Visalia, CA

Re: Finishing Update

Post by Kevin Sjostrand »

Guys
Tried aquacoat a few years ago and was not happy with the results. Still have half a can left.
Now!
I use Timbermate grain filler. Soooo easy. Fills the pores. I have not seen it shrink. Look it up and give it a try.
Its not clear but if you want more definition under your finish so color in the grain is good.

On necks mahogany and spanish cedar i use sprinkled end grain sawdust rubbed into the pore using shellac on a cotton ball. Again it is awesome and fast.
Both dry very quickly making multiple coat application possible in just 2 or 3 hours. The sawdust/shellac technique goes even quicker.
Just my 2 cents
tippie53
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Location: Hegins, Pa
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Re: Finishing Update

Post by tippie53 »

You have to seal first then Fill I am happy with the results
i do 3 application and I like to use a squeegee for the first 2 applications the last one I use heavy denium to rub in.
Often the biggest mistake is apply too soon make sure the sealer is dry and the directions say allow 35 min I like to set 2 hr between coats , and I do a light 400 grit scuff sanding between coats with a padded block
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Finishing Update

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I've never had a problem with shrinkage, as long as the wood is sealed first. My first guitar showed shrinkage with just shellac. The second, I pore filled with AC, but didn't seal the wood first, and i used the credit card method, I'd like to have never gotten the pores filled! Plus, I got those awful white pores. I had to sand it all off and start over.

Third guitar, I sealed with 1# cut shellac, and i used thin coats of AC with a paper towelm. Everything fell into place.

1. First and foremost, seal the wood good!
2. Apply AC in thin coats.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
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