Advice from anyone, on the first kit!

[Rds 1st run]

Good day All,
I'm am not a newbie to guitar construction but have never done an acoustic or my own necks. The question I have is
for anyone who would care to reply. Information is my goal. I am going to build an acoustic guitar for my 16 month old Granddaughter, She will grow into it.

My initial thought was a triple o, 12 fret short scale mahogany. I have listened to quite a few clips of this guitar on You tube and it just had a sound I liked verses the rose wood. I have lost a lot in the hearing over the years so could be bad. Just seemed to be a more uniformed tone verses rose wood.

OK, so I have been to Stew Mac, Martin, Solo and Blues Creek.
Stew Mac triple o 12 fret is long scale. Martin's triple o short scale kit does not state 12 or 14 fret and is a very nice rose wood kit. Other than the fact that they state, materials are 2nds. Really don't like the odds. This guitar will have quite a few embellishment added to it and I can't start off with defects, I can do that on my own.. Solo has the Martin guitar in mahogany but it is a Martin kit with the same possibilities in quality of woods and still waiting on an answer if it is a 12 or 14 fret. I have not called John at Blues Creek but as of recent, he was not offering what I am looking for. Did send an e mail to his web site, just haven't heard back.

Would really like a mahogany triple o 12 fret short scale with AAA grade wood. Or if someone could expound as to why rose wood would be a better choice. This would still need to be a triple o 12 fret short scale. At this point in life the mahogany seemed a bit more rounded, mellow where as the rose wood seemed a bit brite. Is the rose wood a better choice for a new guitar player? It will be her first guitar!!

I haven't found any reputable places for a Palour with the same specs.

Any help/info/thoughts/suggestions on this would be helpful. Apologize for the length of this post.
Does need to be a kit with pre bent sides, I think I can make it the rest of the way with all your help. I started this about 3 months ago and haven't gotten very far. Hopefully with some qualified builders responses from here I can get this build going. I already have a go bar deck, spool clamps and spreaders made.

Thank you all in Advance!

RDS 1st Run

[Diane Kauffmds]

Your best bet is to call John Hall and talk to him about specifically what you want. By definition, a Martin 000 will be a 12 fret, short scale, with non-scalloped bracing. A Martin OM, which is the exact same body size and shape as the 000, is a long scale, 14-fret, acoustic, with scalloped bracing.

Frankly, you can do anything you want. I generally make short scale OM's. So, if you prefer scalloped bracing, no law says you can't make a 000, 12-fret that's scalloped. There are 2 Martin 00 body shapes, one is usually used for 12-fret, the other 14-fret. I've made the 00 14-fret body style as a 12-fret. Either can be made short scale. I don't know if you need plans. Plans are usually for the known type, so you may have to rethink bridge placement, etc., if you depart from a written plan.

You should use whatever wood appeals to you in tone. Rosewood is usually a bit sharper sounding, especially in the higher notes; Mahogany is a bit more mellow, with more on the lower end. You could go to a guitar store and listen to 000/OM'S in both woods to decide which you like more.

[tippie53]

a 000 can be both 12 or 14 fret the OM is only 14 fret

[Stray Feathers]

I wanted a shorter guitar and bought a Martin 000 12-fret. I discovered it is not shorter, because the upper bout is just pushed up to meet the neck at the 12th fret. I did some research and discovered the Martin custom "Norman Blake" model - a 12-fret neck on a standard 000 body. I was given the book and plans by Jonathan Kinkead for his OM-style guitar, so with a lot of help from the forum, I modified the plan to accept a 12-fret neck. This moved the soundhole, x-brace, and bridge deeper into the lower bout, the bridge to what some call the "sweet spot". I made two like this and I really like the sound. I thought the longer body of the 12-fret Martin 000 might have more volume but in the end I could not hear a difference. If you want a kit, talk to John; he is an expert, especially on Martins, and may have other ideas too. Bruce W.

[scamp]

Some input from a rookie ( only built one OM guitar and starting to think about my second ) .
That said, I have been doing quite a bit of research on Martin 12 and 14 fret guitars, short and long scale guitars and listening to both mahogany and rosewood versions of Martin OOO and OM guitars.

Personally, I like the longer scale (25.4) rosewood 14 fret OM guitars. The rosewood seems to have more harmonic content and hence a bit brighter more complex sound. The longer scale means the strings are a bit tighter and hence the guitar has a bit more "snap" to it which I like. Again, this if a very personal thing. Others really like the mahogany sound which I think has less higher harmonics but is great for hearing individual notes it seems. Picking one or the other is a bit like wine tasting. Everyone has an opinion and there isn't a right answer.

The 14 fret OOO guitars are basically identical to the OM ( same body shape) but with a shorter scale (24.8 ). I believe they have scalloped bracing as well. This guitar might be good for a younger player since the shorter scale makes them easier to play ( less string tension ).

The 12 fret OOO guitars are interesting and I recently realized they have a different body shape vs the 14 fret OOO and OMs. They extend the upper bout a bit to meet the 12th fret at the body so the body goes from about 19 3/8 to 20 7/8 . The total length is a bit short but not much ( from 39 3/8 to 39 9/16 ). The shorter total length makes it a bit easier to play but not by much it would appear. Also, it seems that the 12 fret guitars don't have scalloped bracing which probably makes them less resonant but probably also makes them have more dynamic range when you play them hard ( like a D12 etc.)

So... overall I think the 12 fret mahogany is a good choice, especially for a player who wants and easier instrument to play. I would definitely go to a guitar store and play mahogany and rosewood and short and long scale guitars. I did and it's much better than listening on the web. Also, I would pay attention to the nut width. I really like 1.75 inch nuts vs. 1 11/16 as I like to finger pick and the increased string spacing. Seems like some versions of the OOO ( I think older versions ) have 1 11/16.

Hope this helps
Scamp

[MaineGeezer]

You might consider the 00 body size, vs 1he 000. It's somewhat smaller, and your granddaughter will he able to get her arm around it sooner. And they sound good, at least to my ear. Another possibility is the CEO-7 shape/size. A friend has one, and every time I hear it I'm amazed by the fullness of the sound.

[Andy Mitchell]

I'm a relative novice at this (so might not have the absolute best advice to offer), but have you looked at the LMI 'smorgasbord' kit site? It lets you pick the parts for whatever sort of guitar you want to build, as finished or not finished as you need. might just fit what you are trying to do...

Any way you go, I think you'll have fun.

[rcnewcomb]

Something based on the Martin 0-16NY might be a good choice.

Calling John Hall at Blues Creek Guitar is time well spent.

[Morecowbell]

Oh wow, what a fun project! Since this is for a very young and small person to grow into I would definitely talk to John Hall about what you're wanting to do. In my mind I'd want to build the smallest size that an adult would still play, not sure if that's and 0 or 00; I don't think I'd build something 1/2 size unless you want to build another one, which we all do :-) Grellier has a free 00 plan download:

https://www.grellier.fr/static/data/pla ... _00_en.pdf

I just finished my first, an OM from scratch, so I heartily endorse the kit approach. It will save you a ton of time and you'll be able to put more energy into building as opposed to figuring out how to build, then building the jig to build, and then building another jig, etc. But I also endorse talking to John because he can talk you through your objectives and custom make the kit to your needs.

FWIW mine is east Indian rosewood and I love the sound (and the look of the wood), but I don't have a mahogany guitar to compare it to.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Rds 1st run]

Well what I have learned so far, is I should have join this forum about a year ago.

Morecowbell,
I had originally thought double o but as the kit world goes pretty limited to what is offered. That's why the triple 0.I will get in contact with John. Really like the plan from Grellier. Quite possible once I take off the training wheels! And yes, the jig world seems to be a hobby of it's own. Love the rose wood in a guitar for the look.

Rcnewcomb, I will have to check this out.

Andy,
I have been to LMI. I can get thru quite a few selections and then I end up with more questions. Not being familiar with all the aspects and possibilities/choices leaves me with doubt. Great place, I just need to know more about an acoustic guitar and the endless possibilities before I decide those options on my own.

MaineGeezer,
I am onboard with the oo size, I need to see what John can do for me. I am not familiar with a CEO-7. I will try to find it.

Thank you all! I am still trying to navigate the forum and haven't figured out how to answer each post individually so I apologize for the group response.

I feel like I have caught up with an old friend and can't get caught up fast enough!

Again, Thank you all. Any and all information is a guide.