Unserviced kit vs scratch build

[Eddie]

Hi,
I am working on my first guitar and I just found this site. I could have used it long before now. I have been working on this guitar on and off for over two years though it spent several 6 month sessions in a box under my bed when work got really crazy. The first three months I was just plain afraid to make a cut in a $50 piece of wood. I have purchased lots of books and studied material on many sites to get as far as I have. I am glad I now have this site to rely on.

I purchased an unserviced classical kit from LMI because I wanted to do it all myself. I have thicknessed everything, joined the top and back and bent the sides, etc. The only thing I had serviced was slotting the fret board and I now think I could have probably done that too. I am almost ready to glue the fret board on. I could have bought a really nice guitar for what I have spent on tools but I would not have enjoyed nearly as much.

Since this site is specifically kit oriented I am curious about what constitutes a kit build vs building from scratch. Does a scratch build just mean you bought all the same materials separately? Or are the materials somehow different? Do professional luthiers use anything different than what would come in LMI's unserviced kits? I would expect that the professional would buy material in larger quantities, but isn't it the same stuff that would go into an unserviced kit.
Thanks,
Eddie

[JJDonohue]

Eddie...I can only speak for myself. I only built one kit that was prepared by John Hall. It was as though he gave me my first heroin injection because I couldn't stop building for almost 10 years now. It was the last kit I ever bought not because it was inferior, but because I needed to continue to test myself in greater complexity of material and process. That first kit guitar is played every day by one of my virtuoso guitar playing sons who cherishes the guitar as was hoped.

Whether it goes into a kit or not, the wood comes from the same tree. Some sets are more figured than others and possess better tone than others. It is the element of personal selection to which I am attracted. I prefer to actually feel and hear each piece of wood that goes into my guitars. If you are like 99% of the builders I know, you'll move on from a kit to a scratch build after one or 2 kits. It becomes a matter of making a commitment to purchasing more tools or dedicating shop space or both.Because of the addictive nature of building, most of us have become pushovers for tools, equipment or jigs. So be aware that you are about to step into a new world full of new issues, problems, thrills and costs.

As a matter of fact, I always thought that name "Kit Guitar Forum" was a bad forum name simply because it would only interest its builders for a very short time and fail to foster long time loyalty. It would also fail to attract the very experienced builders who would help newbies progress beyond elementary school, so to speak. More importantly, it would fail to develop the loyalty and sense of long term almost family experience that other builder fora have developed. I know I say this at the risk of ruffling feathers but I'll say that it is not my intention to diminish the past nor anyone associated with the forum...just an honest opinion. I hope I can help new builders find the confidence to spread their creative wings and venture into the whole new experience of scratch building.

So take the leap, Eddie and start that first "expensive cut". You'll make mistakes along the way like we all have, and still do. It's just that as we gain more experience, we make different mistakes. The trick becomes knowing how to repair them without anyone noticing. You'll gain a lot of that knowledge here.

Good luck and be sure to share the journey!

[darren]

Eddie,
welcome!

My first was an unserviced lmi kit, second and third are scratch from an lmi 'kit' (assembled with 2 guitars in mind) and wood from a few other places.

I've described lmi's unserviced kits as 'building from scratch, but you get all your parts from the same supplier at once'... or something to that effect.

In my head building from scratch implies sourcing your parts from different suppliers, and building a kit implies some level of servicing, whether it be thicknessing, bending, neck shaping etc. But... a kit could also just be a collection of all the necessary wood for one guitar, as Ken mentioned. Also, kit in no way means a lower quality selection of wood.

BTW and off topic -
I think KitGuitarsForum is a great name for this place because this forum is specifically here to assist builders of kits. Kits have their own challenges and procedures that will be different from an unserviced/scratch build. I can't say if Bill intended to foster long time loyalty to the KitGuitarsForum brand - but he certainly wanted to introduce us to the world of luthiery - and kits make a great introduction. my .02...

[deadedith]

Eddie, may I also welcome you to this Forum!
I started out with a 'kit' from KMG over a year ago - I had NO woodworking experience! - and am currently working on kit #4. The first kit was a real challenge, I had to learn EVERYTHING - and I still play that instrument daily. I should add that I have played many kinds of acoustic guitars for 30 years or so, and I was and am surprised by how good the first kid plays and sounds. #'s 2 and 3 were more fun to build because I knew the basics to an extent - and was not so nervous that I couldn't pay calm attention to what I was doing. They are both intriguing guitars.
I could write lots more about this, but in my experience so far:: a great kit can make a great guitar, and I do not plan on any scratch building - I don't have the tooling for that nor the desire - and I can spend my time perfecting the sound and playability of the TOP NOTCH materials Ken (and I'm certain the other sponsors as well) supply.
Good luck to you! You cannot go wrong with a kit as long as you pay attention and ask a lot of questions.
Dave B

[tippie53]

Lets say that a kit is just that , A kit. I can say many folks will take the jump from kits to scratch building. I do not see any reference in JJ's statement that was detrimental about kits , just that he preferred to build scratch. I agree that some people may need the kit as they space for a full shop may not allow them that luxury .
We will be expanding this forum to include scratch building as we need this forum to convey information to both venues of building. This is not condemning any kit provider and in many cases , most kit providers to tend to also help builders.
Be kind .
thanks

[mjmeehan]

Hi Eddie!!

I've pondered that question many times myself and the answer I've come up with for myself is "Who cares?". Whether it's a kit from a major supplier or a "scratch build" the bottom line for me is that the end result is an instrument that I love to play and can be proud of. Like deadedith said, I too had to learn everything, a challenge, and it was fun(and frustrating). That's the way it should be.

Oh! and be sure to post some pics of your guitar on the "Show It Off" thread when you finish, I can't wait to see it. It's the first place I look every time I log in!

[naccoachbob]

Eddie, welcome. I'd love the challenge of building from scratch, but I'm in the same shape as Tony when it comes to having the space, money, time to go at it that way. I got a "serviced" kit for my first one, that eliminated the need for buying expensive tools or learning hard tasks (I think bending sides and shaping necks are hard). There are some here, besides the professionals, who have moved to scratch builds, and they are still around. They give great advice, like the professionals here do as well. John Hall and Ken Cierp have been so helpful to me personally. Also, other Ken's here and Freeman, and many others.
Good luck with either a kit or scratch. I know you'll have fun.
Bob

[tippie53]

that is the point of this , it matters not if you made it from a kit or felled a tree and made it that way . You are to have fun and enjoy the journey. Share your experience and what you learned.

[deadedith]

+1 to what John said.
Dave B

[Eddie]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I just glued on the fret board and will have to wait until tomorrow to see how I did. I think I will go and start shaping the bridge.

I have some tools: a band saw, a benchtop drill press, a drum sander, a joiner and a bunch of handtools. Not a full shop but enough to do most things. I could have purchased a really nice guitar for what I spent on all of that but who doesn't want an excuse to buy tools and build something nice.

I have spent most of my time making jigs. I tried building a bending iron from a pipe and plumbing torch but couldn't get the hang of it so I built the side bending machine from info I saw on the internet. It worked like a champ. I have not found anything really hard; just time consuming paying attention to the details. Even shaping the neck and bending the sides were not hard. I have found that fear of screwing up has slowed me down the most.

I plan to start soon on a dreadnaught but first I am going to get all the jigs built and try to build a binding machine like LMI sells. Then I can concentrate on the build without stopping to build jigs.

Thanks again for the warm welcome.
Eddie