Twelve Strings?

[Jim_H]

Anyone built one?

I'm considering adding one to my build list. I have to confess I've never considered what goes into a twelver, and what the considerations are for the extra six strings?

Heavier bracing? Thicker top? Stiffer Neck? Wider neck? Headstock re-inforcement? Voodooo and Black Magic?

I have an old 70's era Takamine all Mahogany twelve string that is on it's last legs. I've prolonged it's life as much as practical, but it's going to need a retop and a neck reset soon, and I just don't think it's worth the trouble.

Hrmm...

[tippie53]

Aside from the obvious the main differences are many 12 strings are short scales. I have made a few and use a larger plate non scalloped braces . I do the tops about .120 and other than that , it is about the only differences.

[Jim_H]

Thanks John!

Same spread on the X?

When you say the plate is bigger... wider? longer? thicker? all of the above?

[tippie53]

If you are doing it Martin style yes .

[tippie53]

I have done a couple . First one was a Martin kit and was surprised that things are not that much different from the standard guitar other than the bridge plate .

[kencierp]

I've work on some 12 strings and the necks can get really screwy looking -- wavy -- I would suggest as John did short scale, I'd take it further in addition to larger bridge plate and non-scalloped bracing. Add carbon fiber to the neck and most importantly, Ditson style 12th at the body. $.02

[tippie53]

check the bridge plate that should be a bit larger Brian . this era did have a smaller plate than the dred but should be a bit wider for the 12 string . I am sure we are all interested

[Herman]

Jim, the Takamine. Has is a 12 fret neck? And is it hard to play?

Because what keeps me from building one, is this:

20 years ago (I knew anything about the setup of a guitar,) I had a beautiful handbuilt Lowden Ovankol 14 frets 12 string (guess it was a long scale). The guitar was just art, I could stare at it all day! The major reason I sold it for an Ovation was it was so darn hard to play. Cramps all over the place. Maybe it was the setup, but after that I never played a 12 string again seriously. I put my mind to the fact that the 12 string is not my thing. But I could be wrong about that. Do you have a hard playing expirience with the 12 string?

Herman

[Jim_H]

Hi Herman,

The Takamine is an EF-388. All Mahogany.

14 Fret standard dreadnought shape.

http://www.edroman.com/detail_sheets/im ... _12str.jpg



The issues with it are related to the top. It's very thin Mahogany and has a very seriorus case of belly bulge, with a very noticeable sharp crease one either side of the bridge, which is rolled forward significantly.

I've had it a long time (I think I got it on Craigslist for $50), and it had these issues all along. I was of the mind that I would attempt to repair/stablize it.

I installed a Bridge Doctor in it, and that did help stablize the bridge. It's rolled back some and the top no longer looks like its about to explode. The compromise is that it sounds like crap now. The Bridge Doctor kinda killed it.

It probably needs to be re-topped, but I'm not sure how realistic that is. I've talked to a few repair people and searched online, and I'm pretty sure that the neck is attached with some kind of Epoxy or Polyurethane glue. I'm not sure I could get it off without mangling it. I could hand it over to Rick Davis or Cat Fox to deal with, but I really don't think it's worth the cost or effort. I'd rather put my energy into building a new one.

When I first got it, It was really hard to play. The action and neck angle were pretty good, and it has light guage strings tuned to standard EADGBe. My hand gets tired after just a few minutes of playing it. I don't think it's because of a poor setup. On the otherhand I think it's just related to the neck is a *lot* thicker and wider than any of the guitars I'm used to playing. It's fine for a few minutes of first position chords, but after that it goes back on it's stand and I grab something more fun to play.

I'm not a serious player in any regard, and I don't have a strong interest in the 12 string. I'm just planning some future build projects and thought building a twelve string might be an interesting endeavor, and who knows, maybe if I could make one that is decently comfortable to play, I might enjoy it more and add some new tunes to my list.

I think if I were to build one, I would strive for stability and playability over tonal qualities, although not to an extreme. For a 12 string, I'd rather have a stable, playable instrument than one that constantly needs work, or is hard to play, but sounds amazing.

[tippie53]

This may not be as bad as you may first think. Often the bridge plates deform. You may be able to remove that and replace it with a newer stiffer one. That would be my first place as that can remove a good bit of belly and allow you to take off the bridge doctor.