Bringing out the grain in curly maple

The Achilles' Heel of Luthiery
MaineGeezer
Posts: 1714
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by MaineGeezer »

Does anyone have suggestions on how to best bring out the grain in curly maple?
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
Danl8
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:50 am
Location: Chadds Ford, PA

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by Danl8 »

One approach can be an aquafortis stain, which is an old gunstock stain popular during the golden age of flintlock rifles. Made with rusty wrought iron and a strong acid (nitric). This is put on and heated to create the color. The effect is a rich brown to red brown stain that accentuates the figure of the curl. Another approach is potassium chromate dyes, and a good modern alternative water or alcohol-based analine dyes. You can also make a solution with ferric chloride which approximates aquafortis. All of these look awful until the varnish or drying oil goes on, when the color and figure explodes in depth, richness and color. One thing I don't do is fill the grain as it tends to reduce the depth effect.
Mal-2
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:56 am

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by Mal-2 »

Danl8 wrote:One approach can be an aquafortis stain, which is an old gunstock stain popular during the golden age of flintlock rifles. Made with rusty wrought iron and a strong acid (nitric).
I think most people use steel wool now instead, as it is much easier to get (true wrought iron is fairly expensive) and the greater surface area makes the reaction go a lot faster. I do not know if it gives exactly the same results or not.

Here's an example, although his acid is not particularly strong. This might be another reason to prefer steel wool, to decrease the necessary acidity.
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

You can use a water based wood dye, in a nice dark brown or black. Mix the dye, and dye the maple. When dry, lightly sand it until you're satisfied with the color. The dye will penetrate the grain in the figure more than the unfigured wood.

I like Transtint, which is a very concentrated liquid dye.

Now I use dry aniline dyes. Keda makes a good product which is offered in a set of 5 colors, which is reasonably priced at ~ $15. The set comes with 3 primary colors, plus brown and black. They can be mixed into any color that you want.

I prefer water based dye, because once dry, it can be used under oil or water based finishes. Oil based stain can only be used under an oil finish.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
MaineGeezer
Posts: 1714
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by MaineGeezer »

Great suggestions, folks! Thanks.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
Danl8
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:50 am
Location: Chadds Ford, PA

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by Danl8 »

Oops, made an inexcusable chemist’s mistake. Ferric nitrate is the aquafortis shortcut. It’s easier than the steel wool method described above and provides a good result. Steve, having used all of these options, the one I would most recommend is water soluble analine dyes. Very easy to use and highly controllable in terms of color/tint.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
MaineGeezer
Posts: 1714
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by MaineGeezer »

I have no great desire to mess around with nitric acid. The aniline dye approach sounds as though it is more appropriate for my level of skill (or lack thereof). The neck blank is way oversize, so I will have plenty of extra wood to practice on....
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
MaineGeezer
Posts: 1714
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by MaineGeezer »

Here is a photo of the latest attempt on a sample piece. It looks better in person than it does in the photo, but this gives the general idea. The photo doesn't capture the 3-dimensiona quality that one sees when actually looking at it.

This was finished, more or less, as: a coat of shellac, a wipe on/wipe off coat of Behlen brown maple stain, another coat of shellac, and a coat of Tru-Oil. Those were interspersed with steel wool and/or sandpaper rubdowns. It will need more Tru-Oil to get a smooth gloss.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

It looks good.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
jbjewitt
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:56 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Bringing out the grain in curly maple

Post by jbjewitt »

I cant help it - but I have to correct some of the above...…

Aquafortis is an old name for weak Nitric Acid HNO3
Ferric Nitrate is also know as Iron Nitrate Fe(NO3)3

The combination of Aquafortis and rusty iron no doubt was the old time version of what is also known in the old furniture industry as "Iron Buff" a stain that can also be made by soaking steel wool in white vinegar (acetic acid). The reaction products iron acetate which reacts with high-tannin woods like oak to product a chemical called ferric tannate which is a grey-black stain.

The way I have used Nitric Acid is to apply it (without the iron) and then heat the wood. On pine this products the elusive "Pumpkin Pine" look found on old Shaker furniture. The problem with Nitric Acid is that it "stays put" in the wood.

I have never heard of using Ferric Nitrate on wood. I think that reference should have been to Ferrous Sulphate which will produce a brownish-gray look.

Most of these metal salt chemical treatments depend on a rather high tannin content in the wood. Maple doesn't have a high tannin content so they are rarely effective (the exception being straight Nitric Acid)

I use dyes mixed with water. Here is a photo of a 00 maple body that was done by mixing TransTint Golden Brown at double strength, allowing to dry, then sanding back with 220. Then it was dyed again using the Golden Brown at normal strength. It has several coats of 2 part urethane.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by jbjewitt on Wed May 30, 2018 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Jeff Jewitt-
Jewitt Guitars
www.JewittGuitars.com

Homestead Finishing Products
www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com
Post Reply