First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally done?

The Achilles' Heel of Luthiery
OldManGuitarGuy
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First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally done?

Post by OldManGuitarGuy »

On your first build, if you could do it over - would you pay someone to have it finished? The more I read the more difficult it looks! I am considering a building an acoustic flattop using a kit, and MAYBE doing to a 1-2 week class. I think I would greatly benefit from having an instructor as this would be the first build for me....maybe the last build. And I have none of the specialized tools.
The second optional part of the class is finishing. It'd cost about $1000 to have it finished with instruction, not sure of the cost to just have it done without my "help".

So, would you have parted with $1000 to have a top-notch finish on your first creation? <g>

Doug
johnnparchem
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by johnnparchem »

I did a shellac french polish on my first guitar about 10 years ago and it still looks good. I got some instruction on my third guitar and felt I got a lot out of it as I had the context to understand the instruction.

My short answer to your finishing question is it is up to you. Are you making guitars to get guitars or are you making guitars as a hobby to make guitars? If you view the $1000 as a way to get your guitar finished vs learning how to finish a guitar than maybe it is not worth doing. In my view 90 percent of the finishing process happens before any finish product is applied to the guitar. The finishers I know expect the guitar to arrive fully preped for finish.
ruby@magpage.com
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

I, too, did a french polish on my first one - at least what an amateur might call french polish. For my second one I reverted to my usual shellac furniture finish which is 3 coats brushed on, then leveled, then a final coat padded on, then polish. MUCH MUCH easier, and the only difference is that the brushed finish is a bit thicker. But that 12 fret 000 sounds exactly like my 14 fret Martin 000 ( I mean exactly) so how bad can it be. For 3 and 4, I hand applied a water based varnish, still a bunch of work but good and durable. For my 5 and 6, I had a local car painter spray them and that worked out well too. For 7 and 8 I used TruOil and I will use it again - simple, easy to fix mistakes, fairly durable.

Ed
Ed M
OldManGuitarGuy
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by OldManGuitarGuy »

johnnparchem wrote:I did a shellac french polish on my first guitar about 10 years ago and it still looks good. I got some instruction on my third guitar and felt I got a lot out of it as I had the context to understand the instruction.

My short answer to your finishing question is it is up to you. Are you making guitars to get guitars or are you making guitars as a hobby to make guitars? If you view the $1000 as a way to get your guitar finished vs learning how to finish a guitar than maybe it is not worth doing. In my view 90 percent of the finishing process happens before any finish product is applied to the guitar. The finishers I know expect the guitar to arrive fully preped for finish.
Well, I'm 71 years old and probably won't be learning to build guitars for profit. <g> No, this would be a hobby, something to fill my days. I doubt I'd make more than 2 or maybe 3 guitars. That's why a class environment sounds attractive; no big investment in tools, etc. I'm sure selling anything I'd make is out of the question, and I have no one to whom I could "gift" them, so I'd either just add to my collection or give them to a charity, etc.

I pretty much figured replies would be like yours....which is what I have thought also. <g> I will have to do some research on the shellac French polish you mention above. I have done quite a bit of furniture refinishing back in the 70s and 80s, including a walnut coffee table that turned out REALLY nice. I also have finished a couple of rifle stocks, using Tru-Oil or Tung oil. I enjoy that part of the woodworking, but then those aren't musical instruments, and I'm not sure my skills are transferable.
rcnewcomb
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by rcnewcomb »

I certainly appreciate the look of a good nitro finish. However, I found the French Polish process to be very relaxing and enjoyable for me. I'm glad I have gone that route vs. spray lacquer which was my go-to process for other wood working.

I use Tru-Oil on the necks. It is quick and easy, and I prefer the feel.
- Randall Newcomb
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out - another good day in the shop
MaineGeezer
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by MaineGeezer »

If 'twere me, I suspect I would rather spend that thousand bucks on tools and specialty items (e.g. radius dishes, molds, a bending machine, a binding machine) rather than on a guitar finishing job. Nobody builds just one guitar.

I did french polishing on my first guitar. I sanded off the back and started over at least a dozen times, and I still wasn't totally satisfied with it. I doubt other people see the flaws that I see though. Realistically, it's acceptable, if not perfect.

I did french polishing on my second guitar and a couple of dulcimers, then I gave Tru-Oil a try on a couple of instruments, which worked quite well and was pretty easy to use.

I went back to french polishing on my latest project, the Harmony Sovereign rebuild/refinish. I must have learned something in the past three years or whatever it's been, because this time around the f.p. finish came out very well.

I guess all that history is my attempt to encourage you to wade in and see what you can do. Even if you have to start over a dozen times, as i did, it's a hobby -- who cares? You're learning a skill. I think it was Errol Groff of the New England Model Engineering Society who said, "It's a hobby. It's supposed to take a long time."

As John points out, 90% of the work in getting a good finish is surface prep.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
tippie53
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by tippie53 »

the one thing I learned is that it isn't what you put on. it is what you let on.
There are a number of acceptable finishes out there.
Shellac
Wipe on Poly
True oil
these are the big 3. Nitro takes a lot of equipment the 3 listed can be done with simple hand techniques.

Take your time. I learned actually using cardboard. The secret isn't a secret is is all about the prep.
I know one guy that us using super glue.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
phavriluk
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by phavriluk »

Been there, done that. First guitar I made was under Dave Nickols' tutoring at his shop. Finish was West Systems epoxy, scraped and sanded, 2 applications, and followed by sprayed nitro. Guitar was built in six days, took it home on the 7th day. Dave's been doing this for a while. My guitar was the 50th student guitar that went through the shop that year (in early November).

But my second guitar I finished at home, z-poxy, two applications, scraped and sanded, followed by a skim coat, followed by rattle-can Deft satin nitrocellulose. I spent my money on a luthier's help with bridge installation and setup (eighty bucks, enjoyed spending every penny).

A good part of finishing with the materials I used, the money went onto the guitar, and was spent on that very guitar. Hardly any tooling involved.

So, a home finish for me was entirely do-able and looks just fine. And the materials cost under a hundred dollars. Learned a bunch, too. Be prepared to spray/sand/spray for some long while.

And OP and I are of nearly the same age. There's the luxury of available time when retired.
peter havriluk
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

A good finish depends on good prep. I've finished all of my guitars myself, but I've learned that everything depends on good preparation. You can finish a first guitar nicely, so don't let it intimidate you. Final sanding/scraping, and pore filling is more than half of the equation. Take your time prepping it, then go from there.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
OldManGuitarGuy
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Re: First Build -Finish yourself or have it professionally d

Post by OldManGuitarGuy »

I'm the OP. Thanks guys, I appreciate learning from your experiences.

I believe I can probably do the finish myself, although it might be more difficult than what I've done in the past (gunstocks, furniture). I know what ya'll mean about preparation from my past projects, but I've never had to sand anything down to start again. But then I've never done a guitar, have I? <g> So I'll be prepared should that happen, and not let it rattle me. Like most guys, I'm sure I'll be in a hurry to finish the guitar and start playing it!

Doug
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