"Finish Cure" Possible Z-Poxy alternative

[rgogo65]

I know lots of people use z-poxy successfully and it's a good, proven pore filling product.

It is also hard to find in some areas and expensive to buy from vendors like LMI unless you are ordering other products, the shipping can run it up to over $25.

Times are tough and not everyone (Me) has bottomless pockets.

I know some use bonding e-poxy from the dollar stores and other places and seem to have pretty good luck with that..but there really IS a difference between bonding e-poxy and FINISHING epoxies, or so I'm finding out.

Adhesion issues with finishes can be one of the problems associated with the use of bonding e-poxy in this manner. Requiring the use of shellac over the E-Poxy.

What I have discovered is a finishing epoxy available at most hobby stores (Model aircraft type to be more precise) called "Finish-Cure" from BSI industries. Very interesting and a lot of folks are going to this stuff for a couple of reasons.

It's easy to find. it's easy to use because it recommends heating and the flow is better and the sanding less...it also has a 20 minute work time and last but not least it's 1/2 the price. At $9

It also appears, that there are no bonding issues between finishes and the product like there can be with Z-Poxy...I say "Appears" because I haven't experimented with it myself...but I'm going to...I don't care for the odor of Z-Poxy and BSI has a really low odor index.

Here's the link...check it out...also watch the video...and I understand that the folks accept calls and are more than willing to answer your questions..

So, in conclusion...it's something you may want to consider in you search for the ultimate pore filling solution.


http://www.bsi-inc.com/Pages/hobby/epoxies.html

Video:
The "Finish-Cure" discussion is the last segment on the vid at 6:20

Ray

[Tony_in_NYC]

Ray, I am always interested in less toxic methods for finishing guitars. Except for nitro lacquer. Man I love to breath those fumes!! Other than that, I want a product that wont kill my brain cells or cause me to become sensitive to it over time. I hate it when my limbs swell up or my breathing becomes difficult.
Please do post your results when you got to testing!! I have Z-poxy at the ready for when the weather allows me to begin finishing again.

Tony

[deadedith]

For pore filling, nothing is much easier than this, out of Fine Woodworking magazine. A well-proven and reliable method. I'm not arguing against anything, just throwing this out because I believe it is worth trying on some scrap at least. You can stop when your pores are filled or continue all the way to finish. I posted this some time ago:

I now have a method of pore filling that works for me. It is not a method that is used much on this Forum, but man does it give a beautiful pore filled finish.
Sand to 150. Clean off dust. Apply a liberal amount of Fast drying varnish high gloss (I use sherwin williams) mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits - make sure the area you are working on is well covered with the mixture, and then sand the wet mixture into the wood with a good open-coat alum oxide paper. It will create a slush that sands into the pores. Before it gets too tacky, wipe off the excess with clean cloth or, as I do, with blue shop towels. Wait an hour or so - unless it is very humid - then go to a 180 grit, sand, remove dust, then sand in the mixture again with the 180. Repeat every hour or so with finer and finer grit. I switch to a real good grade of wet-dry paper around 600-800 grit and take it up further if I want to. I finish up with a thin coat of straight varnish. I can do back and sides in one day.
This makes a beautiful finish, and has the advantage of pore filling an exact match to the wood, and using finer and finer grits continues to fill pores as well as sand smaller and smaller scratches.
Again, lots of ways to skin a cat, and I know from reading in the Archives that some people (most?) prefer the look of clear pore filler, and I'm okay with that. This method gives a durable, attractive and professional looking finish with not much fuss or all the agony people go thru with pore filling.
DaveB

[rgogo65]

Wow Dave! Very cool. I've read about slurry sanding but never in the detail you were kind enough to explain...I have to try that...it makes perfect sense to ME!
Thanks for the share.

Ray (:0)>}

[deadedith]

I think it is worth your experimenting with it.
DaveB

[rgogo65]

I think it is worth your experimenting with it.
DaveB

I'll do it for sure! Thanks again.
Ray

Ray, I am always interested in less toxic methods for finishing guitars. Except for nitro lacquer. Man I love to breath those fumes!! Other than that, I want a product that wont kill my brain cells or cause me to become sensitive to it over time. I hate it when my limbs swell up or my breathing becomes difficult.
Please do post your results when you got to testing!! I have Z-poxy at the ready for when the weather allows me to begin finishing again.

Tony

C'mon Tony, too much fresh air is over rated...I mean, you know THAT.. you live in NYC for crying out loud!

Besides you take away the toxic poisons and stuff and you'll probably flop over...LOL

I know, I been there, done that...
When I left LA many years ago, had to stick a garden hose in my tail pipe and clamp it in the window a couple of hours a day or I couldn't function...Sheesh...don't get carried away now...LOL

Ray

[Tony_in_NYC]

Good point Ray! Bring on the toxins!

[Darryl Young]

Sanding a slurry to pore fill has always appealed/repulsed me at the same time. In the end, I just can't see how sanding dust (that you work so hard to keep out of the finish) wouldn't make the finish "murky" instead of clear. Now I'm not saying it does........just can't figure out how it wouldn't. Seems the grain would look "fuzzy" (for lack of a better term) and not defined.

Dave, how clear does your pore fill look when it's done? Is the grain clearly defined or fuzzy? I've even seen some finishes on Martin guitars where the grain looks a little fuzzy to me (though very good finishes).

I now have a method of pore filling that works for me. It is not a method that is used much on this Forum, but man does it give a beautiful pore filled finish.
Sand to 150. Clean off dust. Apply a liberal amount of Fast drying varnish high gloss (I use sherwin williams) mixed 50/50 with mineral spirits - make sure the area you are working on is well covered with the mixture, and then sand the wet mixture into the wood with a good open-coat alum oxide paper. It will create a slush that sands into the pores. Before it gets too tacky, wipe off the excess with clean cloth or, as I do, with blue shop towels. Wait an hour or so - unless it is very humid - then go to a 180 grit, sand, remove dust, then sand in the mixture again with the 180. Repeat every hour or so with finer and finer grit. I switch to a real good grade of wet-dry paper around 600-800 grit and take it up further if I want to. I finish up with a thin coat of straight varnish. I can do back and sides in one day.
This makes a beautiful finish, and has the advantage of pore filling an exact match to the wood, and using finer and finer grits continues to fill pores as well as sand smaller and smaller scratches.
Again, lots of ways to skin a cat, and I know from reading in the Archives that some people (most?) prefer the look of clear pore filler, and I'm okay with that. This method gives a durable, attractive and professional looking finish with not much fuss or all the agony people go thru with pore filling.
DaveB

[deadedith]

Looks good! I suppose a good side-by-side test is in order; I have some timbermate left over from a project, so if I get a little time I will do a test and post results. Or you could do one yourself. I have no ego stake in this, it's not like I invented something new :-) and as a matter of fact I like the clear pore finishes just as well - but not enough to go through the tortuous paths that I see laid out here so often. Unless I can see a real advantage, which so far I have not.
But hey, I know I've got 1/100th the experience of some of you, and got a LOT to learn. So I'm humble in this whole thing.
DaveB

[deadedith]

A few sucky pix of a piece of African Mahogany pore filled with the slurry method. It is utterly smooth. It is not quite as reddish as the pix but does have some red in it that the fast drying varnish really brings out.
DaveB
The little cat is our Sophie, the one that is driving me crazy with constant staring - adoration? Contempt? - and of course must be in on every single thing. But yeah, she's a cutie.