Sanding after pore filling

[watergunn]

Turns out the stain was I using is an oil based stain and you cannot use oil with the Cardinal lacquer. That is what LMii says.

No where can I find anything saying that you cannot use oil based stain with the Cardinal lacquer.

I had been using Cabots stain from Lowes which is not oil based. So, i did not have any issues with the cardinal lacquer over it. I did not know whether it was oil based or not till I did some research.


I had some stained rosewood I tested stains on earlier. I shot a couple coats of sealer on them.
On the oil based samples the sealer pulled right off with a piece of tape. The non-oil based remained intact.

So, now I guess I have to use a different lacquer. LMii says I probably could not sand the oil based stain completely out.

I assume Behlens might work.

Any ideas on the next plan of attack.

I keeps getting better and better!!!!

[B. Howard]

Hmmmm....That's interesting. Never had a problem with oil base stain under any of the lacquers I use. But the only over the counter stains I use on a regular basis are Minwax. Behlen may work, but I don't believe any of their stains are a true oil stain so it may be the same. Something that may be worth a try would be through bonding the stain to tie it into the resin matrix. Cut some sealer 60% with some thinner and spray out a coat. As soon as it is tack free run out a coat of sealer as normal. This may lock in the pigment and stop it from bridging. I do agree that sanding out the stain would not really be an option. Alternately you may find luck with a shellac bond coat over the stain, but you could still have an adhesion problem. As always work this out on test panels.

[watergunn]

Thanks for the advice.

Usually I am the candidate for the "never happened before" syndrome!!!

[btberlin]

If you are looking for water-based stains that might work, look at the Target site. They have a line of water-soluble, emulsified oil stains that might work for you. And a WB vinyl sealer, EM1000, that works well over the stain, and, if I recall correctly, they also have a WB shellac (which i have never used).
In fact, in the future, you might want to test an entire Target finish protocol - sealer, pore filler, stain, and EM6000 WB lacquer, which is 100% burn in, even after it cures. Also check out http://www.targetcoatings.com/forum/ their forum, which has a luthier section. I just finished a Jumbo in sapele and sitka, and found the EM6000 very nice in appearance, easy to shoot, and easy as heck to drop fill. Also compounded and polished beautifully with MeGuiar's 105 and 205, followed by the Meguiars Ultimate polish and Finesse-it wax.
Bert

[watergunn]

I had not considered the Target system.

I have to find one system and go with it.

I just happened to use the oil based stain in this one.

[btberlin]

There is an obvious advantage to using one system, as far as declared intercompatibility of the components goes. In my opinion, most of the objections to water based top coat have been solved in the EM6000 - it does not have the bluish tint (IMHO) to me - I used to do wet-lab color photo printing and processing, and I believe i am relatively well attuned to colors. It does burn-in between coats, so when you level and rub it, no witness marks that i could see. It sprays nicely (i use an Asturo HVLP conversion gun for most parts, and a small HVLP conversion HF touch-up gun with a small fan for neck and such), and there is nice support on the Target Luthier's forum. Also, if you have a technical problem, you can call and ask for the guy who owns the company, Jeff Weiss. He does travel a lot, and may be hard to get a return call from him, but when you do, he is really helpful and knowledgeable. It worth a trial IMHO. And for heaven's sake, get some cutoff scrap of the woods you are planning to finish, and try it all out on there. If you do decide to try, they carry sizes from 5-gallons to quarts, and often run promos and sales. I buy directly from their site and they ship fast (I am in the same state, though, NJ, so it arrives next day).

The target product site: http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/
The Target finishers' forum: http://www.targetcoatings.com/forum/

bert