Using Nitrocellulose Guitar Lacquer anywhere near your home

[johnnparchem]

I have been spraying an electric guitar for my daughter with coat after coat of lacquer outside of our house. Unfortunately I managed to have our entire house filled with the lacquer smell. Wow a little goes a long way in terms of fumes. I have been banished to the far corner of our property.

My question is how other deal with the intense fumes released into your near neighborhood while spraying? I use french polish for my acoustic guitars to avoid the fumes. Even professionals with shops in urban environments must have to deal with their exhaust while spraying.

Thanks for any insight or alternitive products. The stewmac colors look great both the tints for the sunburst and the sloid colors I used for the back and sides.

john

[JJDonohue]

The solvents used in Nitrocellulose lacquer are not only toxic but are sensitizers and have also caused sever allergic reactions to more than a few who have come in repeated contact. Then there's the explosive nature of Nitrocellulose itself to consider! Bottom line, if this a one-time only project, then do it outside on low-humidity and calm days and let it cure out in the garage. The longer you let it cure before sanding, the easier it will be to sand and the better will be your results...4 weeks minimum. Otherwise, look into waterborne finishes that you can much more safely use at home.

[tippie53]

As JJ points out , Nitro , while a fantastic finish does have some legit concerns. I use it exclusively but I am now having finishes done by Dale Bartholomew . I had a booth but did take it out as the insurance is nuts. I will be putting another in but it will be separate of my shop and in a discreet building , that way I don't have to insure it.
As for health issues , they are real and do not take the warning lightly. This stuff is explosive and can cause health issues but with a little bit of care , can be very safe.
First off , GET A MASK , don't even think about a dust mask , get a real painters mask . They are not that much and it is well worth the price. A 2 stage filter is good . 2nd try and make a bit of a control area for spraying. I used my garage and bought a hanging wardrobe . this was perfect , I could open it , spray the guitar , allow a few minutes for the air exchange , then zip closed. That way I could open the overhead door and not have bugs sitting on sticky lacquer. It really helped to control the smell and contamination.
If you are in a heavy populated area , the water borne finishes are getting better and better . The varnish is not back either . French Polish is a nice finish but lacks the endurance of the other finishes. I have used straight shellac and that worked ok.
Find what will work best for you.

[kencierp]

Any nitro lacquer product will have very strong and dangerous fumes --- Target coatings makes some user and community friendly WB products --- a resporator and eye protection are still needed -- many have found this to be a very effective alternative -- personally I have used the discontinued USL and it worked fine, very close to nitro in final appearance. Here's the sticky from the old forum:

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/forum/th ... 79_0_7_0_C

[johnnparchem]

Thanks for the responses. I have been using the appropriate safety gear. My mask has two gigantic plug-in filters and I can not smell the lacquer while spraying.

I will track down the other products when it comes to finishing the D28 I am working on. For the electric guitar I am finishing, I will step back and build a quick visqueen spray box where I can spray and close it up.

[JJDonohue]

Thanks for the responses. I have been using the appropriate safety gear. My mask has two gigantic plug-in filters and I can not smell the lacquer while spraying.

I will track down the other products when it comes to finishing the D28 I am working on. For the electric guitar I am finishing, I will step back and build a quick visqueen spray box where I can spray and close it up.

I wouldn't close it up!!! Unless you're purposely trying to create explosive conditions, air circulation would be important! Please be careful and do it right.

[johnnparchem]

Thanks! I will leave it free to vent.

[Darryl Young]

John provided a quick run down on different finishes. I'm not too keen on using Nitro for the reasons previously mentioned. I'm not too fond of the blueish cast of water base lacquer on dark wood though it looks great on medium and light colored woods.

I'm considering using KTM-SV on my first build. Anyone have thoughts, pro or con, on this product? I know some have used it with good success. The things I like about it based on reading posts and web pages by Randy Muth and Rolfe Gerhardt (who use it exclusively) are: it's water based so safer and cleans up in water, has good flow and leveling properties, it dries hard but is flexible so provides good protection, it's clear and buffs out well, and it dries fast so can recoat in 1 hour so spraying could be completed in 1 weekend if you are dilligent. The cons are it doesn't burn in as well as lacquer so not as easily repairable, if you wait too long to finish sand it gets hard enough sanding is more difficult, and it doesn't like oily woods (rosewoods) so requres a good sealer before applying over oily woods. Randy and Rolfe claim there is no issue with burn in if you spray within 24 hours.......and if they wait longer, they apply alcohol to the surface and let it sit to soften the finish, then spray with good results (this is also how they do repairs so it will melt into the previous finish). To avoid extra sanding work, they finish sand through the grits on something like the 4th day after spraying when the finish is hard enough for sanding but not yet at it's final hardness.

It sounds like you could spend a weekend spraying.......and have the guitar finish sanded out before the following weekend. Can't recall how many days they wait before buffing but it was something like a week or so.

Another thing Randy mentioned is that water base finishes don't "pop the grain" like oil base finishes. So Randy uses a sealer that really pops the grain and applies the KTM-SV over that. He also said the sealer he uses is a great barrier so oils in the wood don't contact the finish.

Appreciate your thoughts on this product.

[Freeman]

I have a full blown industrial spray booth where I work and have shot some nitro there (and I have another refin that has to go with nitro) but the last 5 or 6 have been water born finishes, shot at home in my garage in a little "booth" made out of a cardboard guitar shipping box (it is mostly to catch the overspray dust from getting on cars and such. I wear a dust mask instead of the respirator required with nitro, clean up with soap and water and don't worry about blowing up the neighborhood or killing the cat (I quit worrying about my brain cells years ago...)

As Darryl mentions, some water based lacquer does have bluish cast, particularly when wet, and it has the bad habit of forming witness lines if you sand through coats (which is what you want to do with lacquer, duh). My last was KTM-9 following the instruction on LMI's web site - none of the probles and the finish is incredible (see pics in the CA thread). That will be my finish from now on

re: grain popping, see the CA thread. I believe in Zpoxy. re: spraying over a weekend - it takes me two weeks at 3 coats a day, then I let it cure for 3 more before color sanding and buffing. If you spray a mist of denatured alcohol between each 3 coats (ie per day) KTM-9 will melt into itself - I actually went about 5 days when I ran out and everything was fine.

btw - the little 8 oz cans that LMI sells in NOT enough for one guitar unless you only plan to put on 6 or so coats. I think 12-15 or more is necessary for spruce tops and maybe 24 for the back and sides, but I'm an old hot rodder and two thirds of a lacquer paint job ends up on the floor.

[Darryl Young]

From what I've read, the blueish cast mostly shows up on dark finishes and is worst in sunlight (or maybe indirect sunlight). Supposedly, this is a characteristic of the acrylic resin in the water based lacquer.

I'm about 90% sure I will try the KTM-SV. It's available in pints, quarts, or gallons. I'll probably start out with a quart. Hopefully that will be enough to let me spray a few test pieces and the guitar. After testing if I think I need more I'll order before I start spraying the guitar.

It has crossed my mind that I could just send the guitar off and have a professional job done cheaper than I can buy all the equipment needed to spray. Only problem is the second guitar costs just as much so you have to pay that again and again. So I guess I'll just learn to spray myself.