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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1308
Well, I've come far with the 000. All of the tuners were rusty, but original, so I soaked them in CLR and removed the rust with a soft brush. After they were dry, I cleaned them in naphtha, to remove any residual grease or dirt. After they dried, I lubricated them with 3 in 1. One has a bit bent, so I straightened it the best that I could.

Here is a photo of how they looked, followed by how they look now (the bent one).

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Last edited by Diane Kauffmds on Tue May 09, 2017 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1308
Since the guitar is 70 years old, and I had no choice but to strip the top, I needed to "age" her again. I used potassium permanganate to age the wood. I used the center back strip color as a guide:

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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1308
Man did I run into a PROBLEM!!!

I made the new fretboard, which turned out nice. I was trying to put it on the neck, temporarily, so I could trace the profile. It didn't look right. Then it dawned on me that the 14th Fret was a good 3/8" lower than it should have been. First, I checked again to make sure it wasn't a short scale guitar. It's not. It's also suppose to be 14 free of the body.

I decided to clamp the old fretboard back onto the neck. Sure enough, that 14th fret was waaaay below where it should have been. I measured the existing bridge location. For a long scale, the bridge would have to be moved toward the bottom of the guitar to the point that the bridge pin holes would have rested along the leading edge of the bridge. If a short scale, the bridge would have to be moved forward, toward the neck 1/2".

I got to looking closer. I realized that I'm dealing with an amateur neck reset done by someone had no idea what in the world they were doing. The neck must have kept getting lower and lower as they chiseled away wood. It's very obvious that this guitar hasn't sung for a very long time. As I was cleaning up the mortise I found more offending, telltale evidence. Someone added spruce to one side of the tenon, a complete no no, as you shouldn't mess with the tenon.

So, my mission is to raise the neck to the proper location. Using a 3/4" thick piece of mahogany, I traced the dovetail and the outside of the neck. From this template, I made a one piece extension to the neck. Luckily, I have 7/16" left in the dovetail. In a perfect world, I would have 1/2", but this world isn't perfect. But, when I start fitting the neck, I'm sure I'll expose more of the dovetail.

I've glued the dovetail extension to the neck, using 2 part epoxy. I also made a caul to fit the piece and I clamped it using one of my fretboard clamps. It will sit like this overnight.

Stay tuned for tomorrow. I'm sure that the neck will be a really EASY fit (not!)

Here are loads of pictures, which will demonstrate my problem. Remember that this guitar is suppose to be 25.4" scale:

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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:04 pm
Posts: 193
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
Quote:
Since the guitar is 70 years old, and I had no choice but to strip the top

Can you, as well as others, elaborate on when a finish is beyond repair? I have memories of a 1956 Fender Stratocaster I had where I foolishly decided to strip the finish. This was in 1974. Had I known how much this would eventually impact resale value --- well, you get the idea.

When is it better to leave the finish in place and/or do minor repairs vs. a strip and refinish?

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- Randall Newcomb
10 fingers in, 10 fingers out - another good day in the shop


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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:37 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Napa, CA
Hello Diane, Been following your progress and now confused regarding the scale length. The 1947 14 fret 000-28 has a standard scale length of 24.9 (short scale). The one you are replacing is a long scale. Is it possible that the previous repair switched out the original neck and installed another neck with a longer scale unknowingly? From the pic, it looks like the body was built for the short scale?

t


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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:37 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Napa, CA
Okay , reread your comment above regarding the location of the bridge... how can a '47 000 14 fret have a long scale? special order i guess.
t


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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:49 pm
Posts: 142
Some posts back, about cleaning up the tuners, 'I soaked them in CLR'. What's CLR?

Maybe I'll give myself a dope slap when I hear what the letters stand for, but for now I have no idea.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1308
Okay, I', going to answer everyone's questions regarding the scale length.

The 1947 000-28 is indeed a short scale, 24.9. However, this guitar, with the neck as is, didn't fit short scale. To further confuse, they put a long scale fretboard on the guitar. My initial gut instinct was that this was a short scale, but the measurements, using the neck as is and seeing the fretboard, suggested otherwise.

Before doing anything that couldn't be undone, I called John Hall, who spent quite a bit of time with me on the phone. The neck is the original neck. The serial number and model are still visible (barely) on the bottom of the dovetail. John was concerned that the previous owners had changed out the neck, but this doesn't seem to be the case. So the question is, what's happened?

Well, someone did a "neck reset". Instead of taking off a small amount of wood on the tail only, they took off wood on the entire bottom of the neck, which in turn, allowed the dovetail to sink into the pocket. This made the 14th fret sink below the shoulders of the guitar by a good 1/4".

Why they ever put a long scale fretboard on the guitar, will forever remain a mystery. My mistake was not checking Martin's specs for a '47 000.

So, checking the measurements of the bracing on the box, verified that this is a short scale. Also, taking measurements of the neck, ignoring the changes made, verifies a short scale.

The lesson learned is to always check for the original specifications if there is a question. Lesson learned.

I made a new short scale fretboard today, and I worked further on the box. Even with sanding, when I wipe the box with naphtha, the area at the top of the box, which had the hideous "wings", darkens more than the rest of the guitar. This is counter intuitive, considering that this area was under the plastic, and therefore you would think that it would be lighter colored. I've concluded that the glue used, must have left a chemical footprint that reacts with finishes. So, I darkened the area below this area more and sanded the top of the bout more. It's resulted in what will be as close to a homogeneous color, as I can get. Some blotching will happen, but then, it's an old guitar.

I'll work with the neck tomorrow. We'll see what needs to be done to keep the 14th fret above the body, using the short scale fretboard. They did a butcher job on the neck.

Tomorrow, I'll start french polishing again. Some of the blotchiness in the photo is because the naphtha is evaporating.

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Last edited by Diane Kauffmds on Sat May 13, 2017 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1308
rcnewcomb wrote:
Quote:
Since the guitar is 70 years old, and I had no choice but to strip the top

Can you, as well as others, elaborate on when a finish is beyond repair? I have memories of a 1956 Fender Stratocaster I had where I foolishly decided to strip the finish. This was in 1974. Had I known how much this would eventually impact resale value --- well, you get the idea.

When is it better to leave the finish in place and/or do minor repairs vs. a strip and refinish?


I can tell you my criteria. I stripped this finish because, There was no finish left at all under the "decorative" thingy-ma-bobs, that the previous owners put on the upper bout. That wouldn't have been a problem except that there was precious little original finish left on the entire top at all. The sides and back still had nitro and I was able to judiciously spread what was left to areas that had none, but my estimation is that the top had less than 20%, at most, original finish left. Plus, I had the concern about the color difference between the upper bout and the rest of the guitar. so I decided to take off what little there was, and french polish with shellac. The new owner plans to play this guitar, so it needs protection.

I didn't make the decision lightly. I don't think there is any real guidelines, other than what the restorer thinks, given the situation.

This is where I started. It's hard to see, but if you look closely, you'll see a darker area around the bridge and to the left of the soundhole, down to just below the bridge. This was the sum total of finish left on the guitar and it was painfully thin, with bare wood showing through.

Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: Martin 1947 000-28
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm
Posts: 1308
phavriluk wrote:
Some posts back, about cleaning up the tuners, 'I soaked them in CLR'. What's CLR?

Maybe I'll give myself a dope slap when I hear what the letters stand for, but for now I have no idea.

Thanks!

CLR stands for Calcium Lime and Rust. It's a commercial product, which comes in a gray bottle, with an active ingredient of citric acid. It cleans these deposits out of sinks, etc. It's a very gentle cleaner.


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