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 Post subject: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 12:35 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Ireland
I think I may be having a senior moment today as I just cannot seem to be able to get the intonation set properly on an acoustic epiphone belonging to a pal who dropped it off asking met to have a look. I followed what I understand to be a formula often posted on forums using capo on the first fret etc etc, but with no success so far, and despite several attempts the 12 fret note is sharp on the 2 high strings E and b. I adjusted the truss rod with stew macs slotted straight edge and a thickness guage and all seems ok there. The nut slots already have hardly any adjustment left and the strings are at optimum at the first fret and cant really be lowered anymore .
So all thats left to get me in the ball park is the saddle and my question is if I shave the saddle a little is that going to flatten or sharpen my note at the 12 th fret??
As I said the high e and B are sharp and i need to take them down just a little to get in tune.

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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Location: Hegins, Pa
If you are flat , you need to compensate the saddle. I don't use a capo.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... BDi8YwHM_I

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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:45 pm 
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Location: Hegins, Pa
you may be missing the point of what you need to do. To adjust the intonation , you have to manipulate the string length. With the string being sharp . you need to lengthen the string. You carve away the saddle , not lowering to make the string length a bit longer.
I use a file and cut the saddle on the front , this will move the saddle crown back. Take about 1/3 of the saddle and see what that does .

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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:31 pm 
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Location: Ireland
tippie53 wrote:
you may be missing the point of what you need to do. To adjust the intonation , you have to manipulate the string length. With the string being sharp . you need to lengthen the string. You carve away the saddle , not lowering to make the string length a bit longer.
I use a file and cut the saddle on the front , this will move the saddle crown back. Take about 1/3 of the saddle and see what that does .



Many Thanks John, When u say carve away the saddle ? Does that mean file away the peak of the saddle on the front slightly ?

Sorry if I'm not understanding.
Rusty

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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Location: Hegins, Pa
the front , THINK LENGTHEN THE STRING . You are trying to move the contact point of the string back , longer makes flat shorter make sharp

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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Location: Visalia, CA
tippie53 wrote:
the front , THINK LENGTHEN THE STRING . You are trying to move the contact point of the string back , longer makes flat shorter make sharp


John, that does make it easy to remember, thanks for this!

Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Posts: 217
When I intonate with my tuner, I've always remembered which way you need to go because the tuner "tells" you.

When the needle is flat \, it's essentially an arrow telling you to move your saddle <--. When it's sharp / go --->

Same thing John said, but for the same reason I can never remember spring forward fall back (or what ever one is which), you can always mix words up, but the tuner doesn't lie.

-Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:45 pm 
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Location: Ireland
Dan Bombliss wrote:
When I intonate with my tuner, I've always remembered which way you need to go because the tuner "tells" you.

When the needle is flat \, it's essentially an arrow telling you to move your saddle <--. When it's sharp / go --->

Same thing John said, but for the same reason I can never remember spring forward fall back (or what ever one is which), you can always mix words up, but the tuner doesn't lie.

-Dan



Thats the best one yet !! I really had not thought of it but now I will remember something as easy as that
Thanks again
Rusty.

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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:43 am 
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There's something about intonation that I don't quite understand. Someone tell me the fallacy of my thinking. If an open note is in tune and the fretted 12th note is sharp, the standard procedure is to lengthen the string at the saddle. That makes the fretted 12th note in tune but makes the open note flat because the string is longer. To make the open note in tune again, the tension of the tuning machine must be increased which makes the fretted 12th note sharp again and we're right back where we started.


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 Post subject: Re: Intonation again.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:13 am 
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Location: Hummelstown, PA
I do not use the open note. I use the 12th fret harmonic and the fretted note at the 12th. Here I am balancing the half string. Yes you need to adjust tension to bring the string back to pitch but you will reach a balance point where the 1st partial and the fretted half string ring the same pitch. I am also tuning the string by the harmonic and not the open note when i do this. In theory using the open note will work but I feel I get more accurate settings using the partial. By adjusting the speaking length, when you fret the 12 the distance is longer than scale would dictate there by flattening the pitch to compensate for the slight increase in tension created when the note is fretted which is what causes it to go sharp.

This by the way is not the only way to intonate a guitar. In certain instances I will compare the notes fretted at the 5th to the 17th and make them exactly one octave apart.

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