Classical Building with Steel String Methods

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PSmill
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:23 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by PSmill »

A friend asked me to build him a classical guitar, figure I'll give it a go. Quickly figured out I have no idea how to go about it. Researching build methods I see there are a pile of methods, some traditional and some more modern. And various combinations of solera versus mold, neck joints, forward or flat neck angles, domed versus radiused tops, parallel and tapered fretboards, raised fretboards of build on a wedge shaped shim......an so on. I would like to build using what I have and the methods I've been learning as much as possible, an outside mold, radius dishes, bolt on neck, etc.. There is a lot of info on combining these various methods to achieve correct classical action, and lots of people asking the same questions, but I have yet actually find a complete method described anywhere close to what I'm looking for. I was wondering if people have build classicals using steel string methods, and any good sources for plans and instructions along these lines? or a good description of the method? Thanks!
Danl8
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Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by Danl8 »

You might consider taking a traditional form (Torres, etc.) and use a Martin-style traditional dovetail instead of the traditional Spanish foot/neck. Martin has made classical guitars (Google Martin N-20 2010) over the years and although I don't know, I would think they use X-bracing and their regular steel string block/dovetail joint which is a viable alternative to a traditional classical. Other than the top bracing, the build could be very similar to a steel-strung acoustic. The wood selection & thicknesses, bridge, string mensur and neck reinforcement could be slightly different. i think I'm talking myself into trying steel string methods...
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I have Martin references, inc historical data. I'll see if the books talk about their bracing patterns.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
tippie53
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Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by tippie53 »

Martin did a few different nylon bracing patterns
they did the G series that were X braces
the N series ( Willie's Trigger ) that are fab braced

our new member Brian is highly trained in classical's and would have input worth listening to
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Brian Itzkin
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Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by Brian Itzkin »

The old Martin G Series and C series were fan braced but not a particularly elegant system and massively overbuilt.

You can build a top quality classical guitar without using the traditional Spanish method, Ignatio Fleta famously used dovetails to join his necks and the contemporary maker Aaron Green does the same. Remember that classical guitars have a forward neck angle, the opposite of a steel string. If you choose to build flat with no neck angle your top will need a very significant dome or a very thick fretboard (or a combination of both).

I've never heard of a single classical guitar with a parallel fretboard and I'd imagine a guitar like that would be extremely difficult to play in the higher registers, please taper your fretboard.

I'd highly recommend using a solara (a solara isn't a mold and both are often used together) and Spanish heel. It's a bit much to take in at once but once you find either a teacher or literature to explain the methods its a very intuitive and rather fool proof method of construction.
Brian Itzkin
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Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:52 pm

Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by Brian Itzkin »

Here's an example of using a solera with outside mold from an instrument I built in March/April

Image
PSmill
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:23 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by PSmill »

Thanks very much for the information!
PSmill
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:23 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada

Re: Classical Building with Steel String Methods

Post by PSmill »

Hi, Update.......I posted a while back asking about this approach....I went ahead and built a guitar using a combination of the steel string methods I have learned, and the Bogdanovich book. It turned out pretty well, there were a few learning curves along the way. His tops have a “tilted dome”, the lower bout drops from the bridge to the tail and that section is radiused 28”, took a bit to figure out hte best way to do that. I used 2 bolts with epoxied inserts. He doesn’t give the neck angle, but the pdf plans do show the rise of the neck/reverse angle and so using that I came up with a 1 degree neck angle. I mis-aligned the tuner pegs, that was a mistake. The biggest problem I had was levelling and relieving the fretboard. He suggests shaping the top of neck board into a slight scoop, and then when the frets/fretboard go on they put pressure the other way and it should result in a flat neck. I ended up with a slight concavity. And the relieving the top of the fretboard bass side in a pie shape was tough (I used a sanding block). All said, the surface on my finished fretboard wasn’t very flat. I had to remove a fair bit of the frets during levelling, but that seemed to work out ok. I’ve been progressively lowering the nut and saddle and have the action down, at the 12th, to 3.5mm high E and 4mm low E. This is within spec at the high end,. but the action feels high still. I plan to lower the string slots for the B and E, and lower the saddle anotehr 1mm. No buzzing so far. The tone and volume are really nice. The string height at the bridge will be close to spec.The back & sides are palo escrito, it’s super nice! All in all I was happy with this approach and would do it again. Open to any suggestions as well! Tnx.
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