confusing info on 12 frets and short scales

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tippie53
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confusing info on 12 frets and short scales

Post by tippie53 »

There is no correlation of scale length to the neck join of a 12 or 14 fret.
12 frets and 14 frets can be both scale length In Martins often the 12 frets were long scales but either will work as long as you base your bracing to the proper scale length of the neck and fret board.
Don't assume because it is 12 fret is it short scale.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Danl8
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Re: confusing info on 12 frets and short scales

Post by Danl8 »

Good example is the Martin 000. It can be 14 fret and short scale, and it can be 12 fret with long scale. And it can be 14 fret with long scale (aka OM) and it can also be 12 fret with short scale. The shape of the body is of course different for the two basic types. This autumn I plan to make a short scale, 12 fret koa guitar modeled after the custom Martin 000-42 Koa which is of course short scale. BTW my classicals are 12 fret longer-than-long scale (26+"). I might even try a 13.5 fret custom scale next.
ruby@magpage.com
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Re: confusing info on 12 frets and short scales

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

I am building a 13, fret 25.34" scale copy of a pre-1929 Gibson L-1. At the time they were in the middle of a lot of changes and used differing scale lengths, body styles and frets clear all over the place for about 5-6 years. The changing scale lengths and the different frets clear put the bridge at different heights in the lower bout

Ed
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tippie53
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Re: confusing info on 12 frets and short scales

Post by tippie53 »

actually the OM is different that the 000
the bracing is what makes these different . It is true the 000 can be both scale lengths the OM is always long but the braces are different and the neck is also different
that was the original intenet
Spoon Phillips explains this well

Spoon writes:

(Updated May 14, 2017)

Hi Jim,

Thank you for your kind words and interesting question.

I am going to answer your question, and then use it as a springboard to address the whole 000 vs. OM issue.

The simple answer to your actual question is, the 25.4″ string scale, known as the “long scale,” became the industry standard for guitars with that body size, so Martin decided to go with the long scale for the sake of direct competition. And the name of “000” for that size was more well known generically than “OM.”

The “short-scale” neck, measuring 24.9″ and used on smaller Martin body sizes, survived on certain traditional 000 models made in Style 18 and above, and is now making a resurgence, thanks to the recent interest in vintage and retro style guitars.

As to traditional Martin 000s vs OMs, the Martin OM and 000 have the exact same body size in terms of shape and depth. But overall they are not the same thing.

The 000s from the late 1940s on up until modern times were made with a short-scale neck that has the 1-11/16″ width at nut, with non-scalloped 5/16″ bracing.

The OMs, which were sold from 1930 to 1933, and did not appear again in the main Martin line until 1990, have a long-scale neck, which makes them louder and more powerful, and 1/4″ scalloped bracing that makes them more resonant with greater projection than a comparable 000.

This major difference remained the case with all Martin 000s and OMs made in Style 18 and higher until quite recently.

** I must confess, only now as I review this posting in March of 2016 do I realize how clearly the previous paragraphs were composed by an OM player, who prefers that design over the traditional 000s. So I shall balance it as best I can by pointing out that the short-scale 000s certainly have their fans, and for good reasons.

The traditional 000s provide a more-intimate experience by comparison to the OMs. They launch a very clear and defined voice of fundamental notes, while also providing the guitarist with a subtler yet expressively reactive character that very much responds to subtle changes in playing, even if that does not shout out to the room in the same way an OM does. But it still inspires the player, and the results still translate to the broader audience, even if that happens in subtler ways.

And, for some players, the most important differences are found in the shorts-scale’s lower string tension and the fact the frets are laid closer together. The looser strings allow them to be bent farther to achieve higher notes, and the condensed fretboard allows guitarists to achieve stretches across more frets than they could otherwise make.**

Also, at the time the decision was made to offer the lower-priced Martin 000s in the long scale, there were actual OM models offered in Style 16 and Style 15, as well as the Road Series and 1 Series. OMs typically differed from 000s in various ways other than scale length, even though they shared the same dimensions in terms of body size. The OM had lighter bracing and wider string spacing than the 000, which made them popular with fingerstylists and players with larger than average hands.

Over the years the lines between the two designations have merged, until it seems arbitrary as to why one guitar is called 000 while a similar guitar is called OM.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Danl8
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:50 am
Location: Chadds Ford, PA

Re: confusing info on 12 frets and short scales

Post by Danl8 »

Interesting post, John. I must admit the distinction between a 000 and an OM was not easy to learn. With body conformation, it's a distinction without a difference. For internals, a distinction with differences depending on year and model with sufficient exceptions and qualifications to frustrate even a librarian. All in all, it is an interesting story about how subtle & evolutionary changes have made real differences, though.
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