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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:54 pm 
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Posts: 229
No one's mentioned the KMG binding cutter table. It's worth a look around. I bought one (used) and have used it on two instruments. At one time there was a YouTube video of it being demonstrated. Very simple and any errors in use lead to less wood being cut than what's wanted, not more, so it's operator-tolerant, so to speak. Its designer/vendor is now deceased. Perhaps a used one can be found.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:09 pm
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Location: Hegins, Pa
Ken is no longer in business as he passes away

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Blues Creek Guitars Inc
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http://www.bluescreekguitars.com


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:36 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Arlington, WA
Looking at this instrument now boxed in, I see that if I shim the upper bout to get everything level so as to present it to a router jig the sides are not vertical. And not vertical in the same direction. (Photos...)

Thus, as I've researched this, I guess I'll learn the hand method with a grammil, etc. :)

Unless... perhaps y'all have an idea?

Chuck B
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:41 am 
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Location: Arlington, WA
Here's the bottom end.

I've no idea how that got this way. So before I build anything else I'll have to figure that out!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Am I understanding correctly that you're shimming to make the top level, then checking to see if the sides are perpendicular?

I think you want to shim so the sides are perpendicular and don't worry about the top (or back). The important thing is to cut the binding and purfling channels parallel to the sides.

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When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:42 pm 
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As John mentioned, most sadly Ken has passed away. But he left a legacy of simple but cleverly designed luthiery (sp?) tools. Among them is a binding tool that I can testify to being virtually fool-proof and that works with guitars with arched tops and backs and, therefore, with sides that are not perpendicular to anything. There's some discussion at http://www.acousticguitarconstructionfo ... 276#p27276.

Though Ken is gone, the design endures and is very easy to build.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
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Location: Arlington, WA
MaineGeezer wrote:
Am I understanding correctly that you're shimming to make the top level, then checking to see if the sides are perpendicular?

I think you want to shim so the sides are perpendicular and don't worry about the top (or back). The important thing is to cut the binding and purfling channels parallel to the sides.


Thanks for that, and I agree.

I put shims under the upper bout to make the top level to determine if the sides were as out of vertical as I suspected they were (photos). That I can't register a bearing on the non-vertical sides using a suspended router means I would need another method to cut channels. Either holding a router with bearing installed and a tilt base and working pre-measured and marked areas and changing the tilt base for each new angle, or going to hand tools.

And if I do hand tools I may just skip purfling for the top for this first build.

Chuck


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Arlington, WA
yellowesty wrote:
As John mentioned, most sadly Ken has passed away. But he left a legacy of simple but cleverly designed luthiery (sp?) tools. Among them is a binding tool that I can testify to being virtually fool-proof and that works with guitars with arched tops and backs and, therefore, with sides that are not perpendicular to anything. There's some discussion at http://www.acousticguitarconstructionfo ... 276#p27276.

Though Ken is gone, the design endures and is very easy to build.


Thank you. :)

I just registered for that forum and hope to connect with Hans soon.

Chuck Barnett


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:50 am
Posts: 666
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
ChuckBarnett wrote:
MaineGeezer wrote:
Am I understanding correctly that you're shimming to make the top level, then checking to see if the sides are perpendicular?

I think you want to shim so the sides are perpendicular and don't worry about the top (or back). The important thing is to cut the binding and purfling channels parallel to the sides.


Thanks for that, and I agree.

I put shims under the upper bout to make the top level to determine if the sides were as out of vertical as I suspected they were (photos). That I can't register a bearing on the non-vertical sides using a suspended router means I would need another method to cut channels. Either holding a router with bearing installed and a tilt base and working pre-measured and marked areas and changing the tilt base for each new angle, or going to hand tools.

And if I do hand tools I may just skip purfling for the top for this first build.

Chuck

I'll add on to what Steve is saying, the binding cut needs to be parallel to the sides. If you stick to that principle, the binding will lay in so much better and minimize unsightly variations in binding thickness viewed from the top. Binding is essentially an extension of the sides and therefore should line up accordingly. The top and the back are only good for controlling the vertical depth. John's and others' machines mitigate the adverse effect of the back/top curvatures, keeping the cut parallel to the sides.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
Posts: 133
Location: Arlington, WA
Danl8 wrote:
ChuckBarnett wrote:
MaineGeezer wrote:
Am I understanding correctly that you're shimming to make the top level, then checking to see if the sides are perpendicular?

I think you want to shim so the sides are perpendicular and don't worry about the top (or back). The important thing is to cut the binding and purfling channels parallel to the sides.


Thanks for that, and I agree.

I put shims under the upper bout to make the top level to determine if the sides were as out of vertical as I suspected they were (photos). That I can't register a bearing on the non-vertical sides using a suspended router means I would need another method to cut channels. Either holding a router with bearing installed and a tilt base and working pre-measured and marked areas and changing the tilt base for each new angle, or going to hand tools.

And if I do hand tools I may just skip purfling for the top for this first build.

Chuck

I'll add on to what Steve is saying, the binding cut needs to be parallel to the sides. If you stick to that principle, the binding will lay in so much better and minimize unsightly variations in binding thickness viewed from the top. Binding is essentially an extension of the sides and therefore should line up accordingly. The top and the back are only good for controlling the vertical depth. John's and others' machines mitigate the adverse effect of the back/top curvatures, keeping the cut parallel to the sides.


Exactly! And that is why the sides must be vertical or those amazing jigs are useless. They're designed, if I understand correctly, to present the bearing and bit to the sides at 90 degrees. But if the sides are out vertically, that cannot be the case. Yes?


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