Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

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ChuckBarnett
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
Location: Arlington, WA

Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ChuckBarnett »

As a beginner I knew this day would come. Looking for something that will allow me to do a couple of instruments a year or such a matter. I have a Bosch Colt router and a Dremel 4000 with a base. To cut binding channels, it looks like I should have some way of registering off of the side of the instrument to get the depth of cut. Stewart MacDonald sells a special binding cutting bit and bearings. Looks like the cheapest way to go. I welcome your thoughts, as always. :-)
Cbstark46143
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by Cbstark46143 »

I bought mine from John Hall at Bluescreek Guitars. The set contained more bearings than the StewMac set and the cost was less.
ruby@magpage.com
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

You need more than just the cutters - you need a way to hold the router so that is parallel to the sides and so the router base does not tip on the domed top or back. There are several auxiliary router bases that allow this alignment to the sides. There are jigs that hold the router solidly so that you can move the guitar body instead of the router. There are also jigs that do not require bushings on the bit. Depending on how many instruments you might build, it might or might not make sense to invest a lot of money at this stage.

Ed
Ed M
MaineGeezer
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by MaineGeezer »

I've had indifferent success using a Dremel to cut binding/purfling channels. I can't manage to get an even depth of cut. After a few near-catastrophes I started using a gramil from LMI, cutting the channels by hand. It takes longer, but I find the process meditative.

I'm not *that* fond of the process though, so I made a Fleishman-style binding machine. John sells a version of the Fleishman. http://www.bluescreekguitars.com/shop/i ... cts_id=140

It makes cutting channels about as easy as it is likely to get.

Having built one, I can tell you that I think John's price is quite fair. Given how much work it was to make mine, I don't know how he makes any money selling it for $325. If, like me, you have more time than money, however, you could see about making one yourself.

Because I also do metalworking, I made mine out of square aluminum tubing (see below), but you could certainly use plywood, like the one John sells.
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Danl8
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by Danl8 »

This is one choice that can have a big impact on build quality as you know. Like MaineGeezer, I used the hand cutter for decades and switched a year or two ago. And like Cbstark46143, I got John's set up after lots of comparison shopping. (Don't forget to build or buy a binding cradle.) After using the jig once, I felt it was a well-employed expense. Below, my second least expensive binding method (no binding at all is the least $$).
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ChuckBarnett
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Location: Arlington, WA

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ChuckBarnett »

ruby@magpage.com wrote:...You need a way to hold the router so that is parallel to the sides and so the router base does not tip on the domed top or back. There are several auxiliary router bases that allow this alignment to the sides....Ed
I have a tilt base for my Bosch Colt router. This first build is a tenor ukulele I chose to build with 20' top radius and 15' back radius. If I can make this work on the cheap, I'll feel better about the decision process in spending bigger money. I thought fo stabilize the body in the external form and hold the router, roughly maintaining the proper angle.
ruby@magpage.com
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

Chuck

It might just work on the smaller size of the uke, but the problem on a guitar will be that the angle of the top or back to the sides is not constant. Best to have a fence that registers to the sides, or a way to suspend the router over the body while spinning it and keeping the sides vertical.
Ed M
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I also bought John's binder with cradle. I know it's an investment. If you continue to build, and it sounds like that's your plan, I would go ahead and make the investment. John's bit and beating set comes with more bearings than Stewmac. They're a wise investment too. You will need the bearing set with either the stationary binder, or the fleishman.

I've had a handheld, adjustable, binding jig. It was okay, but the width adjustment screw didn't hold, even with a lock washer. It slid as I was cutting the binding channel on my 2nd guitar, cutting a swath off of the upper left bout. I had to disassemble the guitar and change the shape to save the beautiful old wood.

I've also owned the binder sold by Stewmac. I guess I was used to holding the router, because I had trouble with the stationary router, and moving the guitar. In fact, the floating motion of the router mount, which is meant to follow the curve and thickness of the guitar, jumped the edge of the guitar, onto the back, ruining the back.

I'm sure it's simply a learning curve with the stationary type of binder, but I prefer tactile feedback, which I get with the fleischman. The Fleishman works fantastically smooth; it's easy to use and more intuitive than the stationary binder (at least for me)
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
ChuckBarnett
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
Location: Arlington, WA

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ChuckBarnett »

Great input!! Thanks, all. Still researching...

I made some bindings (Koa). Seems there is a variation in the thickness and I'm wondering how problematic this is. I thicknessed the pieces by taping them to MDF and running thru my drum sander at 150 grit.

Chuck Barnett
MaineGeezer
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by MaineGeezer »

You'll want the binding to ideally be just a whisker too thick for the channel so it can be scraped down flush with the sides after it's installed. If it's a lot too thick you'll have more work to do scraping it down, but otherwise it shouldn't matter.

It should also be a tad bit too tall as well, so it can be scraped down flush with the top. I generally have enough to take off the height so that I use a block plane to get it down close, then scrape.

Notice I'm saying "scrape." You can sand, but I find that the fine dust of sanding gets ground into the surface of the top and makes it look dirty. If you aren't familiar with cabinet scrapers, they are worth learning about.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
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