Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

[ChuckBarnett]

Thanks, Ed! One more sterling example of the detailed responses I've grown accustomed to on this forum!

I ordered a 10 piece set of rifflers from Woodcraft (Ebay) today, some of which are curved. https://www.ebay.com/itm/253855514392

I see that you can spend a lot of money (>$150 in some cases) on these files. And so, without any experience, I chose a company that I somewhat trust.

Until they arrive I will tinker with adjusting the cutting depth as it seems to be deeper in some areas and shallower in others. By depth, I mean the distance in from the outside as opposed to the vertical height from the top down the side. I am finding that the carriage bolts on the jig will turn in this soft wood, making tightening a bit of a challenge. I wonder why a harder species wasn't used.

It seems as I look at it that it is pretty important to get the channels accurate -the first time. ;)

[MaineGeezer]

The best way I've found to clean a file is to take about a 16-pernny nail, pound the head flat, and stick the point of the nail in the end of a short length of 3/4" dowel for a handle. Push the flattened nailhead across the file, parallel to the teeth. The end of the nail will quickly conform to the profile of the teeth and dig out more crud than one would believe possible.

[ruby@magpage.com]

If you are filing something that wants to clog the teeth - aluminum, say - if you rub common black board chalk over the teeth first it helps. For wood, a file card is just right.

Ed

[Diane Kauffmds]

I use a cheap brush with metal bristles that I picked up from Harbor freight, to clean my files. I just scrub them with the brush, and all kinds of junk comes off.

The file that I've found the most useful is a Japanese razor file. It removes wood fast, but leaves it looking like it was almost sanded. There are different sizes. I have the small flat one, and the large curved. Here is the small one:
https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.co ... -rasp-file

[ChuckBarnett]

I use a cheap brush with metal bristles that I picked up from Harbor freight, to clean my files. I just scrub them with the brush, and all kinds of junk comes off.

The file that I've found the most useful is a Japanese razor file. It removes wood fast, but leaves it looking like it was almost sanded. There are different sizes. I have the small flat one, and the large curved. Here is the small one:
https://www.philadelphialuthiertools.co ... -rasp-file

Thank you, Diane. I bought some Iwasaki files recently at someone else's recommendation. I bought coarse medium and fine in both flat and half round. I was certainly expecting the fine to be less aggressive than what I have found it to be. Now I find that I'm going to need something a bit finer even than that.
As I look at the link I see that this file is either an Iwasaki or a Hosco rasp. I'm not sure which. This would work well perhaps on outside curves, and one of the rifflers that I have ordered might work on inside curves.

Here are a couple pictures of what I did with the KMG jig on my Bosch router. It's a little rough...

[Diane Kauffmds]

The top edge is cleaning up nicely. I'm sure you'll get the back channels cleaned up too.

I didn't realize you were using the KMG jig. I used to own the KMG router jig and I had similar results. I used my sharp chisels to clean the channels and even out the problem spots.

Part of the problem stems from a combination of the guitar movement from it not being level.

But the biggest problem was that I had a hard time holding the bottom guide 100% against the guitar sides, as well as keeping the top guide against the top/back, while moving the entire apparatus. It was hard for me to control. No matter how many times I went around the guitar, I ended up with the results like you got.

I found that paddle that rides the top/back, had a tendency to kick the router away from the edge, because of the back/top radius. Instead of allowing the side guide and cutter to ride 100% against the sides, it was routing at an almost inperceptable angle. The problem was really apparent at areas where there are sharper turns, like the waist, and around the corners of the bouts.

I modified the jig by shortening the paddle that rides the top. I left enough to safely put my fingers on, to steady the router. I continued to have some uneven channels, especially at the waist, but they were much better. This was the reason I bought the Blues Creek Fleishman binder. It doesn't have or need that lip.

I made drawings. You'll have to excuse the drawings. Obviously they aren't to scale, and the radius is exaggerated; I'm not good at drawing on the Samsung Note. But, I think you'll get the idea.

PicsArt_09-28-01.03.43.jpg

PicsArt_09-28-01.04.08.jpg

[ruby@magpage.com]

I use this jig, and before I start my routing on each instrument I do this. I cut a random curve on the bandsaw in a scrap 2X4 about a foot and a half long. Then I practice running the router along that edge. The three variables are pushing in the jig against the side firmly, pushing down on the top lightly, and making sure the base is normal (90 degrees) to the body.

I usually make 3 passes to make sure I have everything at the same dimensions, both width and depth. I find that with proper pressure at the side, the channel cannot go to wide, and I have never had it go too deep. Several passes will correct any problems with being 90 degrees.

Of the 8 I have done, perhaps 2 or 3 have needed no work with the file, and none of them have needed more than a couple of minutes' work. If there is a discrepancy in a channel, I find that running the router locally will even things out.

Practice practice

Ed

[ChuckBarnett]

Ed and Diane, thank you very much for your help and your coaching me on this. You both have experience with this jig and I am certainly inexperienced in all parts of this grand experiment!

When I chose this jig I believed that it would be my best option, not simply because it was cheap and nearby but because I felt that I could envision myself actually successfully cutting accurate binding channels into this ukulele. That the guide was controlled by hand pressure against the side of the instrument was something I felt I could do successfully. As I understood the makeup of the jig, I felt it was Within my capabilities.

Practice made sense as with every new step in my spinning up to speed on this stuff, and so I did. I picked up a junker guitar some time ago for just that purpose for $5.
I am still mystified as to why my results were as you saw in the earlier photos.

Variables could be that the width of cut changed during routing or I simply overestimated my skill with the jig. I found this guide, made out of softwood, to be of poor quality than I expected. It needs to be a harder wood and I may end up remaking that. To tighten the wing nuts to hold the carriage bolts in place I have used a star washer and vice grips to hold the head of the bolt.

Another variable certainly would be the smoothness and variation in the sides themselves. (I am still not sure why I have such variation, but have done my level best as a rookie and don't know how to make it better.) In an earlier post I mentioned my efforts to get the sides vertical in consideration of a jig that allowed the router to ride up and down as you moved the instrument in a carriage, like the LMI jig, etc. I would have to stop and adjust the instrument in the cradle to compensate for variation in the vertical presentation of the sides. Hence this jig seemed to be the better option because, at all times, that presentation of the router bit was controlled to be vertical or parallel with the sides.

I uploaded a video shot from above of my most recent practice yesterday. It's not great cinematography but you may spot something that needs to be looked at. My main concern was to keep the angle of the guide perpendicular to the side at all points. Obviously one is at a disadvantage in doing that being unable to look down upon the router and jig from a better vantage point. And so it is a by-feel thing, no?

https://youtu.be/zQFFrvOdYI0

I took several photos of the results that you can consider as well. I cannot see too much wrong with the channel.

I sent the photos of the ukulele to a friend who builds and uses a different routing setup. He didn't directly say that the channels were botched beyond repair but that dreadful thought occurred to me. I'm at a point now where this is the most difficult part of my efforts to learn to do this. I don't know that it's make It or break It, But I really do not want to pitch this instrument in the dump.

Again, I will never forget you or this forum as I try to figure this stuff out!

Chuck Barnett

[ruby@magpage.com]

Chuck - you said
"I found this guide, made out of softwood, to be of poor quality than I expected. It needs to be a harder wood and I may end up remaking that. To tighten the wing nuts to hold the carriage bolts in place I have used a star washer and vice grips to hold the head of the bolt."

I have no problem with the quality of the softwood construction of the jig - seems to work just fine for me. Would not be hard to make yourself happy by replacing any parts you are not sure of, though. I tighten the two wing nuts by hand, then just add 1/8 of a turn or less with a pair of pliers. I also do this on John Hall's Dremel base, being careful not to scar the brass nuts - they are available at my local rural hardware store if I need to replace any.

"Another variable certainly would be the smoothness and variation in the sides themselves. (I am still not sure why I have such variation, but have done my level best as a rookie and don't know how to make it better.) In an earlier post I mentioned my efforts to get the sides vertical in consideration of a jig that allowed the router to ride up and down as you moved the instrument in a carriage, like the LMI jig, etc. I would have to stop and adjust the instrument in the cradle to compensate for variation in the vertical presentation of the sides. Hence this jig seemed to be the better option because, at all times, that presentation of the router bit was controlled to be vertical or parallel with the sides."

More important than vertical for this handheld jig is flat - in fact, you want the sides flat for easier finishing/polishing at your finish stage anyway. Remember that if the sides are curvy more than the thickness of the material, you will make a hole when you flatten, so assess everything by holding a short straightedge across the side to see how much material has to be flattened. Here is how I do it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/ ... 776959267/

Scroll left and right, text below, click to enlarge. The binding jig is shown a couple of pictures later, then gluing in the fairly wide purfling is shown

"I uploaded a video"

One problem I see is that you are holding the jig down onto the top by putting your finger on the little flexible tab. The key word here is "flexible". Watch the top of your router wobbling a little as you pass it around the body - this makes the channel a little wider and narrower as you go. I hold the barrel of the router with one hand, and press into the side with the other, and try to lock my arms together mentally so the router body is more stable as it moves. I also do the body in 1/3's so that I can move my feet while holding the tool steady. I learned woodworking from an old finish carpenter who was 72 in 1972 - Joe Shingle was his name, for real. He taught that woodworking was a dance and involved your whole body. When you are planing, your legs are as important as your arms. When you are sawing, everything is moving. I learned to involve my whole body for most tasks, and that is what I do with this jig.

Good luck

Ed

[Diane Kauffmds]

Ed's right about holding the router and side guide. Depending on where I was using the jig, I put an index finger on the top tab, while maining contact with the sides. But, I also have issues with my hands that makes it more difficult for me to coordinate the jig.

If your sides aren't smooth, every little boo will be magnified by the router. Make sure every spec of glue is removed and that the sides are nice and smooth, esp. the end wedge.