Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

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ruby@magpage.com
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chestertown Maryland

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

"I've scoured the web for this jig, looking for pics or videos"

Chuck

Here are some pictures I took for you- scroll left and right:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/ ... 592839060/

The tips I can give you are these:

Take your time setting it up, making sample cuts on the edges of a board.

The picture below shows how I made a series of lines on the fence about 1/32" apart, then a reference line/arrow on the base. This helps a lot when adjusting the fence small amounts

Use a pliers to snug up the two fence wing nuts to avoid slippage - don't crank on them.

After 6 bodies or so I had to level the area where the wingnuts are because the washers make a depression in the soft wood that hinders adjustment. Next time I might inlay a piece of oak or osage orange there to take the pressure of the washers.

Push the jig against the side firmly as you move it - practice this action and try to concentrate on it. Note that with this jig, the sides don't have the perpendicular to the top or back because you are referencing the side. Same with the Ensor

Keep the jig "normal" to the side, that is at 90°. You have to keep your wrist active and move the whole thing clockwise and counter clockwise as you move around the curves

I clamp the body to my bench and work on about 1/3 of the guitar at one time. Move down off the high points of the upper and lower bouts to low point at the neck, waist, and heel, then one continuous cut over the whole area - but....

Make 2 or 3 passes because it is hard to be exactly normal to the side, and if you are not, the channel may not be quite full depth. A couple of passes will get you there

My first guitar had no purfling, just binding, so gave me a good chance of success by design.

I made a ukulele and clamped the router and jig in a vise and moved the body over the jig - like an Ensor. Worked fantastically. I haven't gotten ballsy enough to do that with a guitar body, but I think it is possible

good luck

Ed
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Last edited by ruby@magpage.com on Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ed M
tippie53
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by tippie53 »

the issues here is on the back you have to have a curve top compensate for the radius the way you can make this work is you have to do step cuts around the upper bout on the back. You will see that as you come arounf that part the router will do not locate properly so pay attention there
by making a series of step cuts then clean up with a file you can get a decent result.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
ChuckBarnett
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Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:46 pm
Location: Arlington, WA

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ChuckBarnett »

tippie53 wrote:I have been doing this for about 20 yrs. Of all the jigs I used most of them. The KMG jig is a copy of a design that is in the guitar makers manual . They all have weak points. The best one I have found is the fleishman design. You are controlling the 2 planes and what makes this work is the donut .
I set it up so that the binding is just under the sides and you sand the sides to the binding not scrape the binding to the sides. If you make wood binding keep it at about 1/16 of an inch .
Thank you, John! I have learned to value anything you have to say on these things. I well may get to the point in building where I am doing enough to justify a nicer machine. We'll see how this goes. But for now, the $30 I handed the man for this little attachment meets my confidence and skill level perfectly. ;)
ChuckBarnett
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ChuckBarnett »

tippie53 wrote:the issues here is on the back you have to have a curve top compensate for the radius the way you can make this work is you have to do step cuts around the upper bout on the back. You will see that as you come arounf that part the router will do not locate properly so pay attention there
by making a series of step cuts then clean up with a file you can get a decent result.
Great stuff! I'm all-ears!

Chuck Barnett
ChuckBarnett
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by ChuckBarnett »

And, thank you so much for the time you've taken on this! This form is incredible! Actually had a chance to put bit to practice wood. Will do some more of that in a couple 3 days. Tied up out of town period ever had that feeling where you know you're going to do something fun and good, but you'd rather be building?? Am I becoming addicted!? :-)
tippie53
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by tippie53 »

binding is part of what I call fit and finish. In my years of learning this craft I used about every binding rig out there. Here is what I can tell you from what I learning
Each jig has its own issues some major some minor

So let me link them as free hand jig and standing jigs

Dremel router and stew mac dremel base
to me they were about the same. The 2 main issues here are
A no way to control the lean caused but the back radius and taper
B the pilot bushings don't match the diameter of the bit

so what does this do
A lean
what happens here is the lean of the bit will cause the face of the binding to look pinched and the thickness
of the binding will vary especially at the upper bout across the neck heel to the other side.
The cure for this is to take stepped cuts and then sand or file to be parallel to the sides
the other issued here is that the base will lift from the flat base so on the side the binding will appear less wide along the side and again the cure is to take stepped cuts to accommodate this flaw in design.

B Pilot mismatch to cutter diameter
This is something you have to look for. With the mismatch in location , if you get off tangent to the curve the binding rout will vary in depth so you need to make multiple passes and clear the cut. If your aware of the issues you can get a more desirable result.

tower jigs
Here the issue again is on the back from the taper and radius . The donut helps to locate the cutter but if you have a sever radius and taper this can also lift the router . The cure here is to adjust the carriage to be sure you get even depth.
Since these use bearing cutters the diameter mismatch is not an issue.

the better you can secure your body as you work the better off you are. The cost of devices may influence the purchase and cheap is not always better but if you know what your dealing with you can adjust for it.

One of the least useful is anything that goes into a shaper or router table . They are not very accurate so the more variables you can remove from the process the better the result.

The laminate trimmer you choose will also be part of the variables. Harbor freight units are often cheap but the run out on the machine can cause chatter and chip out. Tooling is an investment . So buy wisely. Cheap tools are a cost as you often realize they don't work well and you end up buying up. Hope this info helps
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
phavriluk
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by phavriluk »

Nobody is limited to owning only one trim router. I have one for each of four dedicated tasks, all at different levels of adjustability, precision, and cost. But it's really convenient and time-saving. For me, cheap at the price. And quality varies, from HF to Porter-Cable 310. But each does its job nicely.

For example, my HF trim router holds a flush cutting bit I use to trim top and bottom overhangs. Seems to do a decent job, and for twenty bucks, a nice way to save time. Is it good for much else? Probably not, and I'm not about to experiment to find out.
peter havriluk
tippie53
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Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by tippie53 »

I switched to the home depot ridgid laminate trimmer and lost the 310's the ridgid has a life time warranty and for jig work they are great as you can use 2 bolts to connect them for positive location and variable speed is nice.
I had a few HF and they threw the router bit. So I no longer use them but that was 10 yrs ago and I think they have made improvements since then.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Diane Kauffmds
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I had a HF trim router. It chipped out everytime I used it, even to rout the excess wood after closing the box. I thought it was the bit, so I bought a new and rather expensive bit, with the same result. I've slowly replaced all of my tools with higher quality tools. I chose my Rigid trim router 3 years ago, because I liked how it felt in my hand. I used the same bits that I used in the HF router and I've had no chip out since switching to the Rigid.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
phavriluk
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Re: Binding top and back, how do you all do it?

Post by phavriluk »

Agree that the HF router quality is so inconsistent that it's luck of the draw if a usable tool shows up. Only reason mine came out of the box was that I was past HF's return/exchange date, so I put in a bit and tried to use it. Works okay, but I'd never encourage anyone to buy one.
peter havriluk
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