Is the Devil really in the details?

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Kevin Sjostrand
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
Location: Visalia, CA

Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by Kevin Sjostrand »

So I do you guys find the title statement to be true in your building of guitars? The more of them I build the more I find this to be so true.
I am only on my 13th guitar. I don't expect to ever make a perfect guitar, but I sure do expect that I should get better at making them. I am finding out that on every one I've built, I get caught not watching out for all the details.
It is the little things that can make a difference in the build quality and the aesthetics that keep getting me. I've decided that I must make a check off list of all the little detail areas I seem to forget to do and check and start to use it religiously
if I am going to move to (I hate the phrase) "to the next level" in my building. At 62 my ability to remember the details is fading it seems
So I'm wondering, how many of you guys use a check off list while building your guitars?

The one little deal that caught me on Monday was installing binding and purflings. I'm using BWB purfling, and at the back side, tail end I had a joint of the purfling and the binding. I made sure the two ends of the purfling fit together really well, nice and square. I glued in the binding and and the purfling on one side, then did the other side. All looked well, but.....two things I didn't do. One, I did not place the purfling joint a little behind the binding joint, which supports the purfling and keeps the joint inline. I've had done this correctly before. ARg. The second thing I neglected to do, is put a clamp end to end to pull that joint in snug. This I also always do. Both of these details I neglected. So the result was my purfling joint is tight but offset slightly, not much, probably only 1/128", but it is enough that it blares at me!!
I can and will live with it, but this is just one example of the things that catch me.

What do you guys do so the the devil doesn't visit you on the details?
MaineGeezer
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by MaineGeezer »

When I figure out how to stop making mistakes, I'll let you know...

I make two kinds of mistakes, it seems to me. One is due to my lack of skill. I try to do the right thing, but the effort falls short. For example, I may attempt a French polish finish, but the result may not be as good as I would like it to be. The only solution I see for that is more practice.
'
The second kind of mistake is due to general stupidity, like doing things out of order. For example, gluing on the fingerboard before I cut the dovetail on the end of the neck. For those sorts of errors, a checklist would likely be a big help.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
tippie53
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by tippie53 »

the details are just keeping things neat and tidy for sure.
Making a list may help
there are so many steps , just take them one at a time . the most important thing is to keep the joinery as clean and tidy as you can
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
tippie53
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by tippie53 »

I have been giving this a good bit of thought.
Details ???
lets look at this and try to set things into a concise list.
A things that are important
Glue joinery geometry structure

these are the biggies
if your glue joints are forced or weak they are doomed to fail. The wood joints need to be crisp and accurate

Geometry

without proper geometry things are not going to line up properly and your efficiency of the string energy transfer will be compromised.
think of it this way , if the neck isn't in the proper position for the strings to mate with the saddle you can't expect the guitar to play well or sound good. Keep is simple.

Structure
this along with the design is the opportunity to allow the transfer of energy in an efficient manner. If your design is poor you won't have the best out of the guitar and if the structure is not sound you will have a failure. Many of the first timers will over build . I built 14 guitars in my first year and experimented to the point of failure. Learning what not to do is often more important than learning what to do.

It is hard to say what makes a good design and where structure has a weak point when making your own design. In engineering terms it is called the economy of design. In plain words to put in only what you need and not over build.
Remember one basic fact. Braces are scale length oriented. start there , place the bridge plate and go off that platform .

Find a good plan and start there . get a base line and then start changing things but only make small changes , don't go too far off the design so you can learn the cause and effect relationship of your changes.

Lastly FIT AND FINISH
I think this is the hardest part , once you learn to make the guitar making them look pretty is the hardest part. Finish is about looks but there is also chemistry involved . Mixing finishes learning how to prep , fill , seal , polish all take time. Lacquer will work differently than urethane so find what works for you.
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
Kevin Sjostrand
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:06 pm
Location: Visalia, CA

Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by Kevin Sjostrand »

Wow thanks John very helpful and good reminders too.
ruby@magpage.com
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

When I started not quite 5 years ago (I have finished 7 and the wood for #8 is sitting in the shop staring at me) I read both of Bill Cory's books. He advocates following a list, but my whole life I have built stuff mostly without so much as a drawing. I tried the list but could not make it work for me.

So my method is to take some pictures of each during construction, then go back and look at the pictures as I build the next one. The pictures for #1 don't have all the details I need because I did not know what details I needed. As I made more, I did more of the steps on my own til now I do the whole thing. By now, I have enough shots that I can properly follow the sequence that I have settled on.

Ed
Ed M
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I make a list of the building steps. It's easy to forget one of those small details, and there are a lot of things that need to be done in a certain sequence. I don't think it has to do with age though; there really are a lot of details.

I've decided to make a checklist with a plastic cover. I can use dry erase markers, then wipe off the list and reuse.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Kevin Sjostrand
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by Kevin Sjostrand »

Now that is a good idea Diane.
I'm pretty sure age makes it worse, I'm proof of that
Danl8
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by Danl8 »

Kevin Sjostrand wrote:Now that is a good idea Diane.
I'm pretty sure age makes it worse, I'm proof of that
Ditto on that. If checklists can make the B-17 flyable, they can help with making a better guitar. ;-)
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Is the Devil really in the details?

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

Danl8 wrote:
Kevin Sjostrand wrote:Now that is a good idea Diane.
I'm pretty sure age makes it worse, I'm proof of that
Ditto on that. If checklists can make the B-17 flyable, they can help with making a better guitar. ;-)
I don't know about making a B-27 flyable, but when I was in the Air Force, I lived by checklists.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
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