Help on buzzing

[harmonics31]

Hi all,
I just put strings on my first classical guitar yesterday. It sounds wonderful ...
However, sting no. 4 (D) is buzzing from fret 1 to 10. It does not buzz when it is open.
The rest of the strings do not buzz.
What could it be?
-Machine head ?
-

Thanks in advance ?

[johnnparchem]

Buzzing is hard to find, but I would suspect it is a high fret or low action. If you have a straight piece of metal that spans three frets move down the neck one fret at a time to make sure there is not a high fret.

As you just strung the guitar I am assuming you used new strings. As an old wire wound string can also buzz.

[harmonics31]

Morning,
Last night, i re-fret and raise the action by 1/2mm (1mm at the saddle).
The buzzing is reduced, but it is still there. It is not really buzzing, it is a metallic kind of sound (more like rattling) that showed up on the EFF#GG#AA#BCC# notes on the D strings. The rest of the strings does not have that kind of sound.

I cut a small wire (from an old D string), put it between the D string and the saddle. The buzzing/rattling is greatly reduced.
So, is it the saddle ? )

I read somewhere that loose parts would produce "buzzing" and may happen at a certain frequencies.

Thanks

[Freeman]

Did you plane relief into your neck or fretboard? Even tho they do not have adjustable truss rods, gut strung guitars need relief, maybe even a little more than a steel string. The usual rule of thumb is that if it buzzes in the first few frets (1-3) you don't have enough relief, if it buzzes at 10, 11, 12 you have too much. Since your buzzes all the way up I'm going to guess a pretty flat neck combined with a pretty low action.

What were your setup specs?

[Ben-Had]

Another potential possibility is that the nut slot is cut to low, thus only showing up on the one string. If you have feeler gauges or a string height gauge check the string height over the first fret compared to the others strings. I go as follows:

1. check the neck relief
2. check string height over 1st fret (i.e. are the nut slots cut to the proper depth)
3. check the saddle height (what are you at on the 12th fret)

If those are all good, something may be loose and buzzing elsewhere (a brace, a fret, a tuner, etc.).

Tim B

[harmonics31]

One note,
The nut is not sitting very tight. If i tilt the guitar, the nut would fall off the slot, easily. There is not a gap between the nut bottom and the neck.
I should make a new nut, make it sit tight in the slot, see what happens.

Yes, the fret board is flat. Neck relief was not done much.
However, my fret board is tapered off (in term of thickness) to the sound hole, per Hauser 1937 specs. I assume it is equivalent to a "neck relief" by sanding off the base side from fret 6 - 12

i made the saddle higher on the base than on the treble, as a precaution.

Since this buzzing/rattling is on the 4 string only, i would suspect this is related to
-the nut/tuning peg
-contact area between string and saddle.
-nut slot, could be too wide, too low

I'll chase after your leads.
Thanks all for your input.

[Freeman]

The nut should fit snugly into the slot and have a tiny drop of CA or white glue to hold it in place. However I would doubt that the buzz is coming from there - I would think that string tension is sufficient to hold it in place. I would also doubt that the tuners are the problem unless you drilled the holes oversized.

If the nut slot is too low you can get buzzing on the fret(s) between the nut and fretted point - a very real possibility, particularly since it is just one string. Could also be a loose fretwire or even a loose brace.

When I built my Hauser copy the instructions were clear that relief was to be planed into the fretboard as well as setting up the saddle with a little more clearance on the bass side (I don't have my notes handy but I could look that up). I posed the question at MIMF to the classical builders and some said the prefered to plane fretboard, while others said they planed the relief into the neck itself (one said the appearance of the f/b being thinner in the center "offended him". Either way, you need some relief to give the string envelope some room altho the higher action on a classical takes care of some of that.

I have also heard of planing the bass side of the fretboard as you describe, that kind of puts a "twist" in it. In my case I just made the saddle 0.5mm higher on the bass side.

Good luck

[harmonics31]

Lat night,
I get my hammer and slam the heck out of the fret wires from 1 to 10.
Re-fret again, making sure that the frets are even.
Put string 4 back on the guitar, the buzzing/rattling is greatly reduced. The only obvious buzzing/rattling spot is between fret 7/8 (if I pluck hard)

So,
I got a loose fret somewhere since i did not do a good job on slamming the hammer on the fret wires.
My frets are not really even to begin with

I will spend more time to make sure that the frets are aligned well.

Thanks all

[kencierp]

To help prevent trial and error buzz detection I always recommend tacking the frets down with CA and a full level and dress before installing strings.

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/fretdressing.html

Also -- take a look at the saddle contact point if its too rounded a buzz can result -- make the angle a little steeper on the tie block side/edge.