Botched Notch: Made mistakes notching the kerning/sides

[Ignatz-77AB]

Hi All,

This is my first post, so I should introduce myself a bit. I'm a retiree who has built several classical and flamenco guitars using a traditional Spanish Heel, solera method of building. On the one hand this method works well, but it requires that you set the neck angle from the outset as the neck and the top are glued together while upside down on the solera before the sides are attached (using a slot or a wedge directly in the neck).

I wanted to try another approach, so I bought a StewMac OOO kit in order to baby steps my way into learning about dovetails and setting the neck angle after body assembly. Even though I have been using a kit, I bought a OOO mold from StewMac to build from there. My two complaints about the kit and the mold are that it is very easy to tighten the spreaders too much during initial assembly (i.e. I did that), thus making the sides just a tad too wide (1/16" or so), and that StewMac cut the top (although not the back) to exactly the right dimensions leaving no room for fitting.

However, everything up until now has gone well. I used reverse kerfing to line the sides and made it to the stage of fitting the top when the trouble began. I thought I had marked everything well (although I find this step cumbersome at best) and notched the kerfing, and the sides (the StewMac instructions have both the X-braces and the top bar go through the sides - I will not do this in the future), and fit the top on only to discover that in a couple of places (X-braces), the angled notches are too wide.

I'm in despair about this. I can see how you can mend the kerfing with glue and some chisel work, but the actual side wood (IR in this case), I'm not sure what to do with (if anything is possible). If anyone has any suggestions, I would be most grateful. It's too expensive a project just to scrap, but I don't want to do sloppy work.

Thanks,
Paul Allopenna

[tippie53]

sadly SM doesn't have very good customer follow up on the kits
call me at blues creek and see if we can't get you a work around
post pics if possible

[Ignatz-77AB]

I am not sure how to post pictures (and am embarrassed by them!), but I've attached two shots. They are both the upper bout, bass side. Do to circumstances not worth going into here, I had my wife hold down the body frame on the top, so some gaps are inevitable, but I think you can see right away, just how sloppy (hence the embarrassment) these are. The second shot was taken from outside the body with a flashlight shining through.

[Ignatz-77AB]

And even the description is a mistake; it's the treble, not the bass, side.

[BlindBo]

I’ve “Been there, done that!’ The StewMac instructions make it all look so simple. My first 5 builds were SM kits and I had the same problem with the joint fit on almost all of them. Once I started Working with Jimmie Hall (RIP), he taught me to tuck the bracing into the kerfing. His contention was that cutting notches into the sides created possible “Stress Riser” spots that could lead to cracks down the road. In addition to that, I find it a much easier process. I chisel the ends of the braces down to 1/8” and use my die grinder to notch the kerfing, not the sides. It makes for a neater job, essentially eliminates any interference with the top or back/side joints, and if you get it just right, the back and top will “click” into place and not slide around while gluing.
I’m 99.9% sure you can find a video of the process on the Blues Creek Guitars YouTube site.

Don’t beat yourself up too much, if this was easy, anybody could do it! I was so disappointed in my first build that I went searching the internet for advice. I came across another poor guy asking the question: “How many f’ing guitars do I have to build to get a good one?”. In general, the answers ranged from 4 to 8!!😂

I should clarify that although I don’t use the StewMac instructions anymore, I do need to recognize that their kits and instructions are geared towards the beginner builder, working in his/her garage with few specialized tools. Not the Wayne Henderson’s of the world!

[tippie53]

you have a design enhancement opportunity here.. Binding may cover all this so your may not be as bad as you think. Bo knows that each mistake you make now is a learning opportunity so the more mistakes the better builder you become.

[jread]

I've think many of us have done the same thing. For the one where I cut the notch through the sides and binding wouldn't cover it, I just got different and taller binding. My 1st kit was built using the Bill Cory books. They were excellent but also instructed the notch to be cut through the sides. That would be fine as long as it's not deeper than the binding is tall. Better to do it John Hall's way and only cut the notch into the kerfing material and stop at the side.

BTW, your build looks clean and excellent. Nice work.

[Ignatz-77AB]

I’ve “Been there, done that!’ The StewMac instructions make it all look so simple. My first 5 builds were SM kits and I had the same problem with the joint fit on almost all of them. Once I started Working with Jimmie Hall (RIP), he taught me to tuck the bracing into the kerfing. His contention was that cutting notches into the sides created possible “Stress Riser” spots that could lead to cracks down the road. In addition to that, I find it a much easier process. I chisel the ends of the braces down to 1/8” and use my die grinder to notch the kerfing, not the sides. It makes for a neater job, essentially eliminates any interference with the top or back/side joints, and if you get it just right, the back and top will “click” into place and not slide around while gluing.
I’m 99.9% sure you can find a video of the process on the Blues Creek Guitars YouTube site.

Don’t beat yourself up too much, if this was easy, anybody could do it! I was so disappointed in my first build that I went searching the internet for advice. I came across another poor guy asking the question: “How many f’ing guitars do I have to build to get a good one?”. In general, the answers ranged from 4 to 8!!😂

I should clarify that although I don’t use the StewMac instructions anymore, I do need to recognize that their kits and instructions are geared towards the beginner builder, working in his/her garage with few specialized tools. Not the Wayne Henderson’s of the world!

Thank you for the encouragement! I agree that cutting into the kerfing and not the sides is the way to go, and I shall bear that in mind in the future! In the Spanish method of building classicals, that is exactly what you do to fit the back, but the top is never an issue as the kerfing is done as individual pieces (peones) laboriously glued on one at a time after the braces have been cut to meet the sides.

[Ignatz-77AB]

I've think many of us have done the same thing. For the one where I cut the notch through the sides and binding wouldn't cover it, I just got different and taller binding. My 1st kit was built using the Bill Cory books. They were excellent but also instructed the notch to be cut through the sides. That would be fine as long as it's not deeper than the binding is tall. Better to do it John Hall's way and only cut the notch into the kerfing material and stop at the side.

BTW, your build looks clean and excellent. Nice work.

Yes, I will avoid cutting into the sides in the future. I too blindly followed StewMacs instructions. I have several nice books on building, but my instinct once I start to work is to just dive in. I was a scientist in a previous life and should know better!

[phavriluk]

If this was mine (and I admit to having used 'generous' notches) I'd leave the notches dry of glue and glue in shims to fill the gaps after the top is installed. I don't see any cause for agita. Enjoy the trip, more adventures to come.