#3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Take us through building your guitar step by step. Post pictures and tell us what you're doing.
Morecowbell
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Location: Fishers, IN

Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Morecowbell »

Looks great, and thanks for sharing some of the challenges along the way. Very good to hear more about your opinion on the walnut - I'm very curious as to how you find the sound compares with your others.
"Facts seldom sway an opinion." - John Hall
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference." - Van de Snepscheut
MaineGeezer
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by MaineGeezer »

Nice volute!

My first guitar is black walnut. It sounds great. I think you'll like yours.

I suggest for any new guitar that you try several type of strings on it to find out which one sounds best. I tried seven or eight typed on mine, and the GHS Americana Cryogenic Treated Acoustic Guitar Strings, light gauge, were very noticeably the best -- on that guitar.

n.b when I tried them they were called Laurence Juber Signature Bronze, buy GHS rebranded them when Juber signed a contract with Martin.
Don't believe everything you know.
Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
When things are bad, try not to make them any worse, because it is quite likely they are bad enough already. - French Foreign Legion
Stray Feathers
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Stray Feathers »

Kind words appreciated! Yes, I am anxious to hear what this will sound like. Once you start this, every instrument gives you an opportunity to learn something. And it's great to learn from the experience of others. As for strings, a nearby guitar shop owner and long-time tech recommended I try DR strings, particularly the Veritas. I like them but I also tried DR Rare and like them even better. I switched to mediums (13-56) on my short scale 12-frets, but will start with lights when this 14-fret is ready. You are right though - you have to find what the guitar likes best! Bruce.
Stray Feathers
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Stray Feathers »

Ed asked in another thread about how this volute was done so I will answer here. I started accidentally by not thinning the headstock portion of a one inch walnut neck blank before gluing the scarf joint. I could see there might be enough wood to leave the volute behind when I did thin it down. I searched around a lot to find information on how to go about it, and also where to position it in relation to the nut. There is not a lot of concrete information out there, but Stew Mac has some information on modifying their pre-carved necks. This thread in the Ultimate Martin Guitar Forum was also good:

https://umgf.com/carving-the-martin-vol ... ChdlktGEso

I also found a drawing on line from the Birkonium CNC people which I used as an eyeball reference, but it is marked proprietary so I will not reproduce it.

I started by marking a centre line for the volute, and rough angles for the sides, then rough-planed the headstock to final thickness using a Safe-T-Planer, working close to the volute lines, leaving some room for adjustment. I had to eyeball the angles of the sides with a gent's saw. From there I pretty much worried it into shape with files and sandpaper and chisels. As jread says in his thread about 'Three Os", my first volute came into final being "by feel".
Stray Feathers
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Stray Feathers »

This guitar has been sitting since last October waiting for good outdoor finishing weather, and has been further delayed by new projects to fill pandemic downtime. I still had to do the frets and side dots, which took a little time. Then I made an ebony bridge for it. This is my third guitar, and the first with a lacquer finish, and the first with a new-to-me Fuji spray unit. I've followed John Hall's suggestions pretty faithfully, and I am pleased so far. I did goof after the first two sealer coats, when I used Mohawk filler on the walnut out of the can without tinting it . I backtracked, wiping and rubbing it off, even with a brass brush to get it out of the grain. I put more sealer on, then used filler tinted with Minwax stains which went much better - though I still think I could have got it smoother. After sanding I sprayed four coats of finish as John suggests, about an hour or more apart, thinned about 50-50 with a thinner mix of 75% thinner and 25% retarder. I used a 1 mm nozzle. Given my limited experience with spraying I am pretty happy with the results - much better than my first attempts with a different sprayer and different finish. (That might be for another thread . . . ) Since these photos, I have level sanded with 400 grit, and today sprayed two finish coats cut 65 - 35 with the thinner mix. It's looking very promising! I'll leave it for about two weeks I think before I start wet sanding and polishing. The guitar does have warts. Bindings and purflings have been a problem for me. I could see it was looking pretty good otherwise though, and I thought I should try to improve some of the blemishes. They are much better, but still visible (see photo of one spot). I'm getting better though - the 12-string I have mentioned in another thread is looking pretty good so far. It's rewarding when you get over these hurdles that you didn't even think were hurdles as you approached them.
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Stray Feathers
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Stray Feathers »

Warning: This is a lengthy ramble mostly about how not to do things . . .So, it's True Confessions time. This build has become The Guitar That Won't Be Finished. When I thought I had completed the spraying process I could see some marks, but thought they would come out with levelling, polishing etc. I think I had been a little casual, since I had issues with bindings, and thought this was never going to be a "perfect" guitar anyway. When I got most of the way through the levelling and finish sanding (400 through 1500 wet sanding, then Micro Mesh), and even started the Menzerna polishing, I realized I was REALLY not happy with the finish. The gloss was coming up well, but there were some deep sanding scratches that were not going to disappear, plus some very narrow but noticeable gaps around the rosette (which I thought had gone in pretty well). But it is a very pretty Engelmann bearclaw top (the photo below is manipulated to show the grain better), so I decided to do a major backtrack, and did a LOT of drop-filling, and sanding out scratches, and levelling with 400 grit. I also realized a repositioning of the bridge early on had left visible marks, so I tried to sand and scrape that down to be less visible - not very successfully. I sanded the whole thing and thought I had done a better job and was going to wait until next spring to spray it again. But we had a few very dry sunny days with temperature a little above 50ºF so I gambled and set up to spray outside. It was a bit of a gong show (for other reasons - that's another story) but I got two more coats on, and hoped I could get another two on in a couple of days. However, I realized my drop filling is VERY visible, and my sanding was obviously not good enough. The area around the bridge looks grim. So I am thinking I need to go back again and take it down more, maybe to the wood if necessary. I may make a new bridge, slightly oversize, to cover those goofs. I think I understand how to go through the finishing process (my first two builds are much better, but they are done with a water-based finish) but I need to be a lot more careful. (In the photos you can see where I failed to properly level the drop filling spots at the rosette, and a longer one behind the bridge - they're all over the place!) Could be worse - just needs more time . . . Bruce W.
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Diane Kauffmds
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

You're doing a great job. Love your volute.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Stray Feathers
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Stray Feathers »

After my lengthy whining about my mistakes with this guitar's finish, I was forced to take a break from it (probably a good thing . . . . ) My wife's picture framing business was very busy over Christmas (good) and she also accepted an offer to purchase it (even better!) That meant lots of work, and I also gained some workshop space, but also lost some work surfaces in the sale. I am still in the reorganizing phase, and working on a work bench/table now - more on that in a week or so.

In the interval, I decided I have to a) sand this guitar more aggressively to prep it better for (re)finishing and b) make a new slightly oversize bridge to hide some of my efforts to hide/smooth/level/fill etc. that did not work so well. I have gone at the top with 320 grit and as you can see in the photo I am down to bare spruce in a couple of places ( I sort of expected this). I've been using Mohawk lacquer and sanding sealer. Can I spray sealer over previously lacquered areas, and then move on to lacquer? If so, will the bare wood areas eventually match the colour of the rest of the sprayed areas? Would lacquer itself act as a sealer, and blend/burn in better with previously lacquered bits? Or should I be taking the finish off down to bare wood everywhere? Thanks for any input - Bruce W.
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phavriluk
Posts: 554
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by phavriluk »

I found few 'things' whose use has promoted my peace of mind and project completion/enjoyment.
(1) KISS finish. Z-poxy filler on b/s, applied and sanded twice, third wash coat. Minwax rattle-can satin lacquer.
(2) cheap strings for first assembly. No wasting cash on unpredictable, anyway on a new guitar, strings (Musician's Friend cheapie 'light' strings). Work fine for me especially for setup on a new instrument.
(3) production standards: neat, straight, well-fitted. There's going to be imperfections. Keep going. The count and severity of imperfections will resolve with experience, not worry.
(4) Remember KISS. Early projects will be learning experiences. Watch, learn. repeat.
peter havriluk
Stray Feathers
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Re: #3 is underway, 14 fret OM copy

Post by Stray Feathers »

Finally some progress on this beleaguered guitar! I did do a major sanding and lots of drop filling and other repairs to try to clean up my substandard earlier prep work. I'm now putting more finish on it along with another guitar and three ukes and it will look respectable, if not a showpiece. This is after six new coats of lacquer. I am pausing on all of the instruments to do some patching and filling, but this one actually at this point has fewer problems than the newer ones. I have made a slightly oversize ebony bridge to cover some of my bridge placement errors. It seemed I would never get this one finished but I have learned a lot through it. Bruce W.
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