Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

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ruby@magpage.com
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

It all depends on your preference - I have done 5 of my 8 without a wedge. Once you get the hang of making a back seam invisible, then this is easy

Ed
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Ed M
jabbiati
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by jabbiati »

I do like the invisible seam. Yours are perfect. For me that's probably gonna have to wait for a tool purchase for my next kit. I.e. a belt sander, etc.
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jabbiati
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by jabbiati »

QUESTION:

I noticed the tail wedge material provided in my kit, as well as the binding material, is thinner than the guitar sides. So when I cut the tail wedge or filler piece, what's the standard practice for making up the difference in thickness? Find a thin slice of material and shim behind it? Then glue both pieces (shim and wedge) in at the same time? Leave it a little proud and sand smooth later?

I'm going to have to find a local General Woodcrafters. As I'm starting totally from scratch, I don't have a nice assortment of extra scraps from previous builds (Note to self: SAVE MY SCRAPS).

-j
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ruby@magpage.com
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

A belt sander is the wrong tool for this. I had a shop teacher in high school who made us produce a cube of wood 1 inch on a side to within 1/32". Every one was sawing, planing, sanding, filing like crazy and not getting the job done. At the end of the period, he took a fine toothed back saw and made a couple of cuts, and voila, he had it.

The way I approach this joint is to wield the saw as accurately as possible, then put a piece of 220 sandpaper on a block and refine whatever local problems there are - rarely much. It helps to undercut the joint - that is, angle the saw and the sandpaper a little towards the interior of the box so that just the outer edge of the joint touches. This makes it much easier to do the refinements.

Alternatively you can use a band saw with the table set square and the top(flat) side of the bent side down. Then refine with the 220 on a block.

I have seen a video of a guy making an entire neck out if a block on his belt sander, but remember, he does a lot of these and I consider this a parlor trick, like flipping 2 yo-yos at once.

Ed
Ed M
jabbiati
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by jabbiati »

Very good to know... Ill use that when I cut the wedge or trim piece.
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Danl8
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by Danl8 »

jabbiati wrote:QUESTION:

I noticed the tail wedge material provided in my kit, as well as the binding material, is thinner than the guitar sides. So when I cut the tail wedge or filler piece, what's the standard practice for making up the difference in thickness? Find a thin slice of material and shim behind it? Then glue both pieces (shim and wedge) in at the same time? Leave it a little proud and sand smooth later?

I'm going to have to find a local General Woodcrafters. As I'm starting totally from scratch, I don't have a nice assortment of extra scraps from previous builds (Note to self: SAVE MY SCRAPS).

-j
Not to complicate your options here, but the method I use is to draw the wedge outlines, score them with a sharp knife, set the depth of my dremel router to the thickness of the tail wedge, rout out the wood, true up the edges (and undercut them like Ed), and tap the piece in with glue. When I cut the bindings the top and bottom edges get trimmed. If side purfling is joined it gets to be a bit more work.

PS: scrap saving -- I've done it for decades. That Brazilian rosewood, fiddleback maple and ebony I saved from the 1970's has come in handy many times.
jabbiati
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by jabbiati »

STEP 4: Glue in neck block and hopefully recover from several inaccuracies...

With the tailblock in, I dry fit the neck block into the form. Had a real hard time getting it to plum and align perfectly in all planes. Clamped and glued it in the form, waited 15 minutes or so, took it out of form to add more clamps...and the cutaway shifted. I had to add more glue and reclamp out of the form the best I could. The fit out of form was far tighter than I could get it in form, so that's good. What's not so good...after drying overnight I unclamped the rim and put it back in the form. It fits, but there is some play at the neck block area in multiple directions. I believe the notch in the form is now preventing it from aligning perfectly with the centerline of the form (left to right, see pic). And there is some play in respect to keeping the block snug against the form (i.e. 90 degree to the form side). Worse, it may be a smidge cocked. Additionally, the block is now a 1/32" under-proud on one end (the top side of the rim).

Recovery plan part 1 (re-truing the block in the form): I would like to cut flush the piece of the cutaway side that slips into the notch in the form, hopefully allowing me to nudge the block slightly in all directions. There is just enough play that I think I can get it true in every plane. The difficulty here will be keeping it locked in place with one screw one when I do align it. Might have to measure carefully to avoid the preset nuts in the block and put in two screws.

QUESTION: If I can't get the neck block locked-in true in all planes with the small amount of play I have, I suspect I will have to heat it to release the glue and start over. Yet, if I cut flush that cutaway overlap, that could present a new problem if I have to heat and reglue, as it might end up short. Thoughts?

Recovery plan part 2 (presanding the top edge of the rim). Assuming success in part 1, I plan to use my 28' radius sanding block to take down the rim edge all the way around until it's at least flush with the top of the neck block. After that I would add the kerfing a tad proud and sand with the radiused block again, as normal.

QUESTION: I'm assuming presanding to take down the sides to meet the form is a better option than filling the 1/32" void with glue?
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Last edited by jabbiati on Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tippie53
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by tippie53 »

you check this when dry fitting. Your not too bad what is it like on the top that it more critical than the back
I take it you didn't screw in the neck block first
that makes the block secure for location later. You can move the block the way it is by widening the notch in the mold. Trying to pull the neck block you may wreck the sides.

So here is what you can do.
A check the center line on the top as that is the critical point.
B widen the notch and loosen the spreaders then you can work the block over that tiny bit. If the top is centered I wouldn't worry about it.
C yes your binding and tail piece is thinner than the sides as you will sand the sides down to meet the binding later do not think you can scrape the binding to the sides as that will most likely pinch the show of the binding make it look thinner
D the slight gap on the neck block on the cutaway side is normal

once you retrue the sides you should be ok.

Be sure next time to locate the block then screw it in the mold for postive location
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
jabbiati
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by jabbiati »

tippie53 wrote: Be sure next time to locate the block then screw it in the mold for postive location
Thanks John! Much appreciated.

I watched the Quick Tip video a few times. I was planning on screwing in the block after gluing like you do in the vid, but I now suspect you were only demonstrating the procedure, not the order in which it occurs in the process. Next time I will screw in place during the dry fit. Live and learn!
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jabbiati
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Re: Jim's First Build -- Custom 000 Short Scale Cut Away

Post by jabbiati »

STEP 4: Con't.

OK, this is exactly why you ask the pros. I expanded the notch in my form to allow the cutaway to shift about 1/16". Once I did that, everything fell into place. Had to slightly shim in a couple of spots, and I locked it down with the screw. It's now dead true on all planes. I will definitely have to do a slight pre-sand on the top to even that out before I put in kerfing.

Thanks John!
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