First Project - A rebuild

Take us through building your guitar step by step. Post pictures and tell us what you're doing.
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Diane Kauffmds
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

These are struts. Your sides may already have them. If not, i recommend that you install them. A strut made of thin wood, wide enough to cover that side crack, will fix the crack.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Keith Reilly
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 pm

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Keith Reilly »

Diane Kauffmds wrote:These are struts. Your sides may already have them. If not, i recommend that you install them. A strut made of thin wood, wide enough to cover that side crack, will fix the crack.
I didn't see any photos in this post. If you could post again. I would like to see a picture even though I have a clear idea already. Photos always help. Any tips on making the struts? How wide, material, etc.

I took another look at the sides and they are laminate. In some parts the grain runs up and down instead of with the side. I cleaned up the inside and started the humidifying process. I had one sponge handy and i used two other containers with a damp paper towel. Its all covered in a trash bag with holes poked in the top. I also moved it out of the garage. Figured its hard to humidify a guitar in close to freezing temperatures.

I discovered a crack in a bottom brace. I think that should be easy to fix but open to recommendations since i've never fixed a brace before.

Also I still have a problem with the Kerfing thats in the guitar. At least I think I do. Its a very thin strip of wood that is not kerfed in any way. I am planning on installing binding that is fairly thick, its how it came and I have no way of thining it. Also I have herring bone perfling I"m putting in too. Together they are thicker than the side of the guitar and the kerfing that is running along it. So that means if I put the top back down as is and cut the channel I need, the top will no longer be attached to the sides. I'm assuming this is not normal and is a problem. I purchased mahogany kefing from stewmac and need to figure out how best to put it in. Do I glue it to the kerfing thats already in the guitar or do i remove the old kerfing first then install the new stuff.
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ruby@magpage.com
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Location: Chestertown Maryland

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

I would just install the new kerfed lining over the top of the original un-kerfed lining. First make sure the original is glued on tightly.

I restored a 1933 Gibson L-00 a few years ago and it had a big crack in one side originating where a piece was missing. The crack was stopped by a piece of fabric tape glued on the side vertically, connecting the top edge of the side to the back edge of the side. I have been using seam bias tape since then to reinforce my sides. I put it on before the lining goes on, but you won't have that luxury already having lining installed. Just cut to length between the two linings, work in some glue with a stiff brush, stick down, and clamp on a wooden caul covered in packing tape to keep it from sticking. You could do a similar procedure with a thin (1/8") wooden piece, too.

It looks like that brace is suffering from a little run-out - grain that is not parallel to the edges of the piece. I might glue it back together, then add a thin (3/32"??) piece of straight grained spruce or pine along the side of it. A select piece of a 2 X 4 would be OK in this case.

Keep on keepin' on

Ed
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Ed M
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I'm sorry. I thought I posted the photo. I use ribbon saturated with hide glue for struts. Your project has no struts, because the sides are laminated, so you don't need them. You do need to put one over that crack though.

Make sure the original lining is secure and smooth. Just install your new kerfing right over it. Clamp it well.

Here is the photo of the struts. I'll also include a photo of clamping the kerfing.
PicsArt_12-10-11.34.19.png
PicsArt_12-06-12.34.57.jpg
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Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Keith Reilly
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 pm

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Keith Reilly »

Thanks for the pic of the struts. I'll put a strut over that crack and one on the opposite side to even things out.

Its good to know its okay to put the kerfing over that strip. It would not have been fun trying to take that off.

Starting to research how to put X bracing on a soundboard. Any resources I should look at so I do this right? I also ordered one piece of torrefied brace wood from stew mac. They say you need three but I plan on using what is already on my sound board. I figure I can rip the stewmac board into two pieces, its 2 inches wide, to get the large x braces. I choose torrefied so it would match the wood that is already aged that i'm going to reuse. But need to figure out how to lay this out. Right now All I got are pictures to go by but i'm sure there is some formula or something.
Diane Kauffmds
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Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

Torrified wood doesn't absorb moisture like untreated wood. Make sure you clamp it for at least 24 hours.

You should draw up a plan for you're x-Braces. I think Mainegeezer has posted some plans in the beginner question forum. There is also a library of guitar tops, with photos of various guitar tops, with measurements.

I prefer to make my x-Braces before putting them on the top. Then I glue the whole thing as a unit. It's easier for me to place the x along the center seam that way. Others prefer to glue one brace at a time. Do whatever feels comfortable. I made a template for the pattern that I prefer to use, so all I do is lay it out on the top.
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Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
ruby@magpage.com
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chestertown Maryland

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

In the future, you might use this technique to make your would match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tViTWUL8Was

Ed
Ed M
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I've used oxidation frequently on the old Martin's I've repaired/restored. The video is great. It's good information for reference, and the video is excellent.

There's a caviat. It works better with some woods than others, and it easily blotches. You can only match same for same. Adi will only match adi, Sitka with Sitka, etc. It's great when replacing a single brace in on an old top with old bracing.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the op went with torrified, because it's as close to actual "aged wood", as he could find for entirely new braces.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Keith Reilly
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 pm

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Keith Reilly »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the op went with torrified, because it's as close to actual "aged wood", as he could find for entirely new braces.
Yes this was the idea. Since I wanted to reuse as much as possible and am keeping the old braces for some parts I wanted the new braces to match the old in terms of how stable they would be. Shrinking, etc. Also I don't know what new braces would do to the sound but from what I read older wood is better and torrified matches that best as far as a new wood would be concerned.

That video was good and if the separation in my soundboard doesn't disappear and i need to put in a sliver of spruce to close the gap I can give this a try. The spruce I have for repair is much lighter in color. For my braces though nobody is going to see them so i'm not concerned if the looks don't match.
Torrified wood doesn't absorb moisture like untreated wood. Make sure you clamp it for at least 24 hours
Thanks for the tip. Will do.
Keith Reilly
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 pm

Re: First Project - A rebuild

Post by Keith Reilly »

Okay so putting the guitar in a trash bag with a damp sponge was a great idea. That separation in the bottom of the soundboard almost completely closed up. Once the binding and perfling go in I don't think there will be much to notice. Diane that suggestion saved me hours of work. Thanks!

The top of the soundboard didn't have as much luck. But there was also a bunch of cleats and a brace all bunched up there so that could be why it didn't close up. Those need to come off anyway since i'll be putting in x bracing and those cleats were plywood. So off they wen't and the top is back in a bag. However I can see dried up glue in the crack. I imagine if i wanted it to shut on its own I'd need to clean that out? Right now I left the glue as is.

Taking the brace off was pretty easy. The small plywood cleats were tough though. But progress was made. Now I just need to take care of the rest of the braces and then figure out the new x brace strategy. Since this top is old do i need to worry about the two pieces coming apart when putting on the x braces? Should I put in some new spruce cleats first.
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