Classical guitar Body FP finished

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johnnparchem
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Classical guitar Body FP finished

Post by johnnparchem »

While I was joining the plates and installing the rosette for my Martin 00 I also joined the plates and put a rosette into an Adi top and jointed Afreica Rosewood back. I was going to build the two at the same time, but no I am not that good, so after many months I pulled the wood down this weekend and started the classical guitar for real.

In between I had a two day course with Jeffery Elliott about voicing a classical guitar top. It was a watch only course, but I learned a ton. Luckily I took good noted and pictures so I can put it into place today.

One of the interesting ideas I saw, from him is that he indexed all of the components that mattered up front. He has index holes in his solera for the saddle location, matching template to index the bridge, Index holes near the heel block and a complete story board with matching index holes for the saddle, rosette center 12 fret, nut ... What I like is that he actually places his bridge before he even makes the body.

Jeff made his story board, but on the Waldren Instrument site, I saw that one can buy a whole package of neck templates for any instrument. This package includes a full length story board.

As you can see in the pictures below. I located the proper saddle location on the story board and drilled index holes in the story board, the bridge and my solera. I used the story board to drill index holes in the top as well (second try, need to remember inside and outside.) I will also drill matching index holes in a neck template to use on the neck and fret board and a bridge template that I have to mark the saddle location. With all of these templates I should be able to achieve some constancy. But I have also already set the location of the top, saddle, and the neck on the top. I made the rough top braces before Jeff Elliott's class. The neck is an LMI neck I had for a couple of years.

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To finish the evening I thicknessed the back and thicknessed and profiled the sides. I could have probably bent the sides but I turned in for the evening.

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Last edited by johnnparchem on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
tippie53
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by tippie53 »

Not many threads on classical building . I will be watching with interest
John Hall
Blues Creek Guitars Inc
Authorized CF Martin Repair Center
president of Association of Stringed Instrument Artisans
http://www.bluescreekguitars.com
johnnparchem
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by johnnparchem »

I did get the sides bent without any issues. I was not in any hurry so I let them set in the mold a bit and ended up with nicely bent sides with little spring back.
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After that I made the bridge patch 1 mm thick and a fret board patch 2.4 mm thick. Some luthiers do not use either patch. There are a lot of fine guitars with cracks along the fret board, so given that the area under the fret board does not really contribute to the sound I like to use one. Given that I have a fret board and the top of the guitar as to be level with the with the face of the neck where the fret board glues on, I needed to plane 5 mm off of the top side of the Spanish heel. Some use a router for this but I have a nice plane for this operation. When planing work both sides stopping toward the middle or you may blow out an edge.
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Testing the depth using the top and some of the same sheet I made the bridge patch with.
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To make sure the neck ends up in the right place I index the neck using a template. Below you can see the previously drilled neck Index holes with small bamboo pins. I used a matched template to drill the holes indexing off of the nut location and the center line of the neck.
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After that I cut the sides to the right length. The tail works just like a steel string guitar. Cut both sides square from the top side on the center line. Cutting the heel end of the sides took a little more work as I needed to fit in the slots in the Spanish heel. I am using an LMI neck which cuts the slots in at an 80 degree angle. That is the remaining wood in the slot is narrow in the back and wider on the top side. I first cut them just like a steel string right on center. Then I marked off the distance from the center for each side on the top and the bottom and roughed in a cut on the band saw on the resulting line. I played with each side to fit perfectly using my belt sander.

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With the sides cut to the right length I felt ok about gluing on the end block. I start the gluing in the mold so that I can be square and on center. After I clamp on half of the block on I remove the sides from the mold and clamp the other half.
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I have a relatively accurate thin card board template for the profiled sides. I used that template to mark the sides and did 90% of the profiling with a block plane. When I was close I used a 15 degree template to mark the Spanish heel foot to make sure I maintained the curve on the foot. When I was very close I finished the process with a radius board. Note through all of this mess I had the sides sitting on the top. I wanted to make sure I maintained all of the proper angles, especially the neck. I still glue the neck dead flat. Some of the better luthiers tilt the neck toward the top a bit (opposite of a steel string). I like it flat as it is easier to glue on the fret board. To effectively get the same angle I plane the angle into the fret board so that it is 1 mm or more thicker at the nut than at the 12th fret. If I had tilted the neck I would have had to thin the fret board extension from the 12th fret on to match the angle of the neck.
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naccoachbob
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by naccoachbob »

John, thanks for posting this build and for answering my questions earlier. I'm very interested in trying a classical in the near future, and your thread is very timely.
Do you know of any youtube videos where someone shows a start-to-finish classical build? The only ones I've come across are 5-10 min in length total. That can't be of any value.
It's looking good, can't wait for more.
Bob
johnnparchem
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by johnnparchem »

Thanks,

I have not found any good you tube videos for classical guitar construction.

Robbie Obrien has an online course that is many hours long and very good. This online classical course includes good set of lessons for French Polishing a classical guitar.

Awhile back ago he made a CD for the LMI classical kits that is a bit dated from the technique that Robbie currently used.

I originally (first guitar) took information from both the Bagdanovich Classical Guitar Making: A Modern Approach to Traditional Design book and Robbie's CD that simplified the construction that better matched my skill level.

If you have the money Robbie's online course is the best put together video course I have seen. I like it because you see almost real time the construction and finishing of a guitar. More importantly he talked about how he does any given steps but also at demonstrates and discusses, contrasts and compares other techniques. I still go back to it over and over again. Even in areas that I do differently I will watch his section as he describes what is important or to look out for,
Kevin Sjostrand
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by Kevin Sjostrand »

Bob,
I have Robbie's video lesson series on building the classical. It is really good, like being in the shop with him.
I would recommend you get it if you are serious. Extremely comprehensive!

Kevin
naccoachbob
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by naccoachbob »

Do you have to watch Robbie's videos online? Can they be either downloaded or sent as DVD's?
Thanks
johnnparchem
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by johnnparchem »

naccoachbob wrote:Do you have to watch Robbie's videos online? Can they be either downloaded or sent as DVD's?
Thanks
you have the options of online or down loading the files.
naccoachbob
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by naccoachbob »

John, you say you set the length of the sides with the same method as steel string for the tail block, but the neck is different because of the sides being inlet to the neck.
Do you set the neck and sides first? That would make sense to me. Then you could more accurately, or at least more easily, set the correct length of the sides.
Also, can you show your method of clamping the sides at the neck.
johnnparchem
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Re: #11 a Tores\Hauser\Jeff Elliott style Classical guitar.

Post by johnnparchem »

naccoachbob wrote:John, you say you set the length of the sides with the same method as steel string for the tail block, but the neck is different because of the sides being inlet to the neck.
Do you set the neck and sides first? That would make sense to me. Then you could more accurately, or at least more easily, set the correct length of the sides.
Also, can you show your method of clamping the sides at the neck.

I did the tail first, but I could have set the length for the neck first. My real index in both cases is the waist bend and being tight in the mold. I did not glue the heel until the sides were at the correct length so they were easy to cut. I cut the sides at the heel side a touch long and iteratively sanded them for a good fit.

There is no need to clamp the sides in the heel. If the fit is tight a couple of drops of ca will hold the sides in the heel until the top and back are glued. If the sides are a little loose you can push in some small wedges from the inside to push the sides tight to the heel cheeks. There again once the sides are in tight a couple of drops of CA (on the inside) can hold them in until the top is glued on.
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