Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Questions and answers for beginners. If you have a question, so do most other people.
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ruby@magpage.com
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chestertown Maryland

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

There are very few specialty tools "needed" to build guitars. I still don't use a dish, but a radius beam made from a scrap 2X4. I still don't use a go-bar deck, but clamp braces one at a time onto the edge of my bench on the radius beam. Takes a bit longer, but this is not a race, and if I decide to build 4 at once or go into business doing this, I can always add those items.

Specialty tools include a bending iron, some nut files, and a laminate router with a $35 binding jig (a gramil works too)

The few jigs I use include the basic mold which is under $20 and uses some scrap 2X4's for spacers between 3/4" plywood faces, a piece of water pipe with sandpaper glued on for sanding the sides, a scrap miter box for sawing frets (not essential)k, a homemade 16" radius sanding block for fretboards, and a scrap jig for positioning a bridge. During the last one I built jigs for making pyramid bridges.

Stationary power tools are a $75 drill press, a $125 band saw, and a $40 4X36 belt sander, all used. Portables include that laminate router and a battery drill. I also rent the services of the local cabinetmaker in thickness sanding top, back, and sides. $20 for a whole guitar worth on his precision, 20 HP, 4 foot oscillating belt sander

I have a nice assortment of a couple of planes, a few chisels, some nice scrapers, files and rasps, and some good squares and bevels, all vintage and inexpensive.

I do more by hand than the average guy does because that is what I enjoy. But there isn't really a lot of expense - the inner webs are a gold mine of stuff to make out of scrap. I still use all of the jigs I made for the first one and I am starting #10.

One of my best and most important tools is a good workbench.

So I don't believe you have to spend a bunch to make guitars. If you make a few and understand what a certain tool might do for you, then go ahead and get it. But there is almost always a cheaper alternative to get you rolling. To me, it will always me a challenge for whatever skill I have.
Ed M
koolimy
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by koolimy »

ruby@magpage.com wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:49 pm There are very few specialty tools "needed" to build guitars. I still don't use a dish, but a radius beam made from a scrap 2X4. I still don't use a go-bar deck, but clamp braces one at a time onto the edge of my bench on the radius beam. Takes a bit longer, but this is not a race, and if I decide to build 4 at once or go into business doing this, I can always add those items.

Specialty tools include a bending iron, some nut files, and a laminate router with a $35 binding jig (a gramil works too)

The few jigs I use include the basic mold which is under $20 and uses some scrap 2X4's for spacers between 3/4" plywood faces, a piece of water pipe with sandpaper glued on for sanding the sides, a scrap miter box for sawing frets (not essential)k, a homemade 16" radius sanding block for fretboards, and a scrap jig for positioning a bridge. During the last one I built jigs for making pyramid bridges.

Stationary power tools are a $75 drill press, a $125 band saw, and a $40 4X36 belt sander, all used. Portables include that laminate router and a battery drill. I also rent the services of the local cabinetmaker in thickness sanding top, back, and sides. $20 for a whole guitar worth on his precision, 20 HP, 4 foot oscillating belt sander

I have a nice assortment of a couple of planes, a few chisels, some nice scrapers, files and rasps, and some good squares and bevels, all vintage and inexpensive.

I do more by hand than the average guy does because that is what I enjoy. But there isn't really a lot of expense - the inner webs are a gold mine of stuff to make out of scrap. I still use all of the jigs I made for the first one and I am starting #10.

One of my best and most important tools is a good workbench.

So I don't believe you have to spend a bunch to make guitars. If you make a few and understand what a certain tool might do for you, then go ahead and get it. But there is almost always a cheaper alternative to get you rolling. To me, it will always me a challenge for whatever skill I have.
I wish I had your reply when I was gluing on the top and back. My go bar deck was a 25$ IKEA desk and Walmart wooden dowels costing something like $.15 each. Unfortunately, I did not understand that the bars would assert quite a lot of force on both sides, the guitar and the desk. The desk was thus lifting and my bars slipped all over the place. I somehow glued the body together but I honestly don't know how it will hold.

I appreciate this back and forth about tools. There's a lot to learn from everybody on how they do things, it can only help all of us, especially us beginners who are looking to get into or navigating the beginnings of this hobby.
phavriluk
Posts: 554
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:49 pm

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by phavriluk »

Let's start: Kits ain't cheap. That's always the case when we pay somebody to do part of the job for us.

Now, a suggestion: Make the parts of a kit as a project unto itself. Wood can be really cheap when its bought outside of the guitar specialists. I bought a nice mahogany quartersawn plank at a high-end millwork supplier and for my forty bucks I got six necks. Also had to do a whole lot of work with a friendly luthier (and paid him) to turn that plank into neck wood.

Part of the price of all this prep is time. Lots of it. If a person can comfortably budget a year, I think he can acquire the tools and jigs and fixtures to make a guitar for a price roughly similar to the finished cost of a kit and the subset of assembly tools and fixtures. And most of the cost of subsequent projects is covered by the now-extant tools and fixtures and molds.

I have built five guitars using this process, none of which cost more than two hundred dollars for any one of the guitars.

But the cost in time and overhead (tools, etc.) was understood to be capital investment.
peter havriluk
ruby@magpage.com
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chestertown Maryland

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

I built 2 full kits and a couple more where John bent my sides - and I am glad I did. It allowed me to concentrate on getting the hard part right - the geometry. No geometry, no guitar, just a planter. I could afford it and I understand that some can't, but my path suited me perfectly and I would recommend something like that to all - build at least one kit, don't do a lot of decoration, concentrate on geometry.

Here is my first - dead simple, no decoration - 42 hours not including padded shellac finish. Click left and right

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/ ... 562735639/
Last edited by ruby@magpage.com on Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Ed M
ruby@magpage.com
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 8:03 am
Location: Chestertown Maryland

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

Duplicate - still don't understand this forum layout
Ed M
koolimy
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by koolimy »

Hi, I wanted to provide an update as I was able to glue the bridge on yesterday.

I have another mistake to add to my extensive list. This time I was not careful and glued my caul onto the bridge plate! I made a caul from a piece of 2x4 pine, and I did not think through carefully enough to protect the caul from the glue. Thankfully I got it off by putting a 3/16 drill bit into the pinholes and heating the drill bit up with an iron. I was pressing down on the bit a little and I was able to get a razor blade in between the caul and the bridge plate as the iron heated up the glue. Next time I will definitely tape the caul and the bridge plate prior to clamping.

After gluing on my bridge, I was able to drill the holes and put strings on the guitar. When I first strung it up it was horribly out of tune, especially in the first 3 frets, because the nut was incredibly high. I ultimately sanded the nut down and was able to get it to a height where it doesn't go out of tune by fretting. I may have to fine tune the guitar a bit, but right now it plays and makes sound.

Even though the quality of the guitar is terrible, the sound coming out of it is incredible! I am worried a bit because it sounds so good now, that maybe it will open up to sound worse. It honestly is the best sounding guitar I have ever played. I always thought the Yamaha FG800 was a great sounding guitar, but after playing my guitar it sounds quite bad. If I compare the sound of the guitar to what I wanted before I built it, it's as follows:

1. Bass: The guitar has loud, punchy bass.
2. 3D sound: The guitar has more of a 3D sound than the Yamaha FG800
3. Reverb: The guitar has quite a lot of sustain and reverb like sound. I like to let the notes ring because they sound so good.
4. Volume: The guitar responds with a lot of volume with a light touch. It sounds pretty loud when strummed too, I just haven't put it through its paces because it is the evening.
5. Long scale
6. Treble: This guitar definitely has thicker, fat trebles. It is different from what I thought I wanted but the trebles don't sound harsh, they sound quite beautiful.

I may be in a honeymoon period but it really, really sounds amazing! I may be tripping but it reminds me of some of the guitars on the Eddiesguitars or Dreamguitars youtube channels. I have to thank Mr. Hall a ton for providing me with such a great kit and helping me get through the entire process. Thanks to you all too for giving me much encouragement and providing a lot of helpful advice.
jread
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:52 am
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Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by jread »

To my mind, your reaction is perfect and means you built a great guitar. It's hard not to see past our "mistakes" but if it sounds good, it is good. Build faults here and there are just personality and are nearly impossible to see or notice from even a short distance away. It sounds like you built a great guitar. Hearing those 1st tones is a such great feeling and they only get better with age.
koolimy
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by koolimy »

jread wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:54 am To my mind, your reaction is perfect and means you built a great guitar. It's hard not to see past our "mistakes" but if it sounds good, it is good. Build faults here and there are just personality and are nearly impossible to see or notice from even a short distance away. It sounds like you built a great guitar. Hearing those 1st tones is a such great feeling and they only get better with age.
Thanks for your kind words! I'm still amazed at how good this guitar sounds. As you said, hearing the 1st tones was an amazing feeling! There are a few niggles here and there regarding playability, but I'm grateful that it sounds so good and that the bridge hasn't flown off yet!

One stupid question. When I strum a chord and hold it, the notes that sustain are higher pitched than the chord I just strummed. It's kind of like the shimmer effect on electric guitar. Is that what people call overtones? It's pretty cool to have that effect going on all the time.
jread
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Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by jread »

Yes. Those are overtones, I believe that you are describing. It sure is fun to explore the tonal qualities of the builds. You definitely built a good one. I’ve learned that one your setup is dialed in with the proper string heights that the sound gets even better.
koolimy
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Acoustic guitar kit recommendation

Post by koolimy »

jread wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:04 pm Yes. Those are overtones, I believe that you are describing. It sure is fun to explore the tonal qualities of the builds. You definitely built a good one. I’ve learned that one your setup is dialed in with the proper string heights that the sound gets even better.
Thanks for the reply. It was very fun to hold the chords and hear some weird harmonics stuff going on. Interestingly, I am not sure if it's just me being weird but it feels like the sound has changed in just one day. If the previous guitar sounded like an Irish guitar with tons of overtones and harmonic content, and with really punchy A, D, and G strings, the guitar now sounds a lot drier, with the Gibson "thump." It sounds a lot like the J-185s I watched on youtube, even though it has a Martin scale length. I did have to change the strings after breaking the ones provided to me by Mr. Hall, as I was constantly taking them off and putting them on to dial in the nut and saddle. That may be the reason why the sound changed but I'm guessing it may be the guitar settling in to its intended sound.
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