Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

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Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

I attach the fretboard, level the board, then fret it. I also file the angle on the edges of the frets with a bastard file. I wait to level the frets and dress them, until after the neck is installed.

Some people fret after the neck installed. It's an individual choice. I prefer fretting the board before, because it's too easy to totally mess up a French polished surface with sharp tools.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
johnnparchem
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by johnnparchem »

David Mathis wrote:
Diane Kauffmds wrote:I'm looking at the last photo. Is the neck twisted a bit to the right As you sight down the neck? As I look at the photo, I can see the shadow from the right side of the dovetail, on the top...

Also, a couple of members and John Hall suggested setting the neck after the fretboard is attached. Sure enough, it's been easier for me to set the neck with the fretboard attached. It's a lot easier to see problems in any of the 3 dimensions with it attached.

Diane, thanks for your input. In the photo you reference, the neck is very loose because the tenon would not seat into the mortise and I couldn't hold it in place while photographing.

That sounds like great advice to attach the fretboard before setting the neck. Do you normally install the frets before gluing the fretboard to the neck?
I like to temporarily attach the fretboard when setting the neck but I do not glue it down until I have the neck set. If you are using a sanding block to fit the tenon it will run into the fret board, making it hard to sand the tenon evenly. Not as much of an issue with a chisel. I have the fret board indexed with pins so I can clamp it on and off to check what is happening with the neck,
Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

What John said is true, but I'm a chisel user. Thanks John.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
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David Mathis
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by David Mathis »

Helpful information, Diane and John. If I understand correctly, your methods are...

Diane: permanently attach fretboard to neck, set neck using a chisel on the tenon, then do fretwork.

John: temporarily attach fretboard to neck, set neck using sanding blocks on the tenon. (Not sure when he installs frets.)

I have been using an 80˚sanding block and another sanding stick I made to work on the tenon, so John's method should work better for me.

I like the idea of installing frets on the flat fretboard (as in John Hall's video) rather than using cauls under the neck while I'm hammering. But that video is from 2010 and sometimes recommended procedures can change over time – like with installing the fretboard to aid in setting the neck.

Any thoughts on whether to install frets before or after attaching the fretboard to the neck, pros & cons, etc.?
johnnparchem
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by johnnparchem »

David Mathis wrote:Helpful information, Diane and John. If I understand correctly, your methods are...

Diane: permanently attach fretboard to neck, set neck using a chisel on the tenon, then do fretwork.

John: temporarily attach fretboard to neck, set neck using sanding blocks on the tenon. (Not sure when he installs frets.)

I have been using an 80˚sanding block and another sanding stick I made to work on the tenon, so John's method should work better for me.

I like the idea of installing frets on the flat fretboard (as in John Hall's video) rather than using cauls under the neck while I'm hammering. But that video is from 2010 and sometimes recommended procedures can change over time – like with installing the fretboard to aid in setting the neck.

Any thoughts on whether to install frets before or after attaching the fretboard to the neck, pros & cons, etc.?
I generally use a chisel, but remembered earlier that you use a sanding block so I made my comment. I wait until right before finishing to glue on the fretboard, the second to last thing glued on my guitar. I fret after I glue on fretboard and generally wait until after I finish the guitar. I like to get a late chance to both level the fretboard and if I need a small adjustment in the neck angle I might put it in the fretboard. (More on classicals than steel strings). Fretting the fretboard on a bench is easier than on the guitar so that is a plus.
I finding fretting the instrument to be an easy operation so I like to take advantage of every opportunity to dress the fretboard before fretting. I use an LMI jig to cut the fret slots and do nothing to widen them more than the shipped saw from LMI. I did learn having overly radiused fret wire (simple if it is shipped as a coil,) is easier than wire radiused the same as the fret board. With overly radiused wire you can tap in the ends (very small contact points between the wire and board) and then hammer from the ends to the center. With just radiused wire there is a lot more contact between the frets and board making it very hard to start to drive them in. I used curved wire even on classical guitars with a flat fretboard.
ruby@magpage.com
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by ruby@magpage.com »

A step I read about and tried last time was to use a pointed wood wedge at the bottom of the heel as I bolt on the neck - adjust the wedge until the set is correct. I then stick on a piece of blue tape along the side of the neck parallel with body as a guide for adjusting. I chisel if the amount is greater, and use floss or sanding block if it is less. Chiseling with a sharp chisel at this point is great fun.

I am still fretting my boards before gluing them on and am having no real problems

Ed
Ed M
Danl8
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by Danl8 »

ruby@magpage.com wrote:A step I read about and tried last time was to use a pointed wood wedge at the bottom of the heel as I bolt on the neck - adjust the wedge until the set is correct. I then stick on a piece of blue tape along the side of the neck parallel with body as a guide for adjusting....

Ed

What an interesting idea. Do you have any pictures of that setup?
David Mathis
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by David Mathis »

With the help of a number of you, I am making progress on setting my neck. I added mahogany shims and basically started over with the process. I now have the angle and centering pretty much dead on. But when I was sanding the heel to produce the correct angle, I left the edge of one side of the heel without good contact with the body. (See pictures.)

I still have to work on the tenon to get the elevation right. But as I move forward, I will also need to fix the heel so it has a nice tight joint with the body. What do I need to think about and do to make this right?

Thanks!

David
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Diane Kauffmds
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Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

To get good contact between the neck and shoulders, scribe sand. Use a strip of ~ 100 grit paper, about 1" wide, and about 6" long. Make sure that the sanding grit is up, toward the heel. Put it under the heel, and pull straight out and slightly down, pulling it through the heel/shoulder joint. Do it evenly on both sides. This will conform the neck heel, to the top of the guitar. It'll happen quickly.

Just make sure you do it evenly on both sides, because this technique can be used to tilt the neck to the left or right, as well as making it sit down. Check often to make sure you're still straight down the middle of the guitar. If you find that angle changing, sand the proper side to correct it.

Here's the video where John explains scribe sanding at about 6 minutes and 20 seconds. He shows it by pulling to the front of the guitar; I pull to the back, because the fretboard is attached:

https://youtu.be/mokxzeYOd_0
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
Diane Kauffmds
Posts: 3246
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 pm

Re: Rookie kit builder in Atlanta area needs help

Post by Diane Kauffmds »

Diane Kauffmds wrote:To get good contact between the neck and shoulders, scribe sand. Use a strip of ~ 100 grit paper, about 1" wide, and about 6" long. Make sure that the sanding grit is up, toward the heel. Put it under the heel, and pull straight out and slightly down, pulling it through the heel/shoulder joint. Do it evenly on both sides. This will conform the neck heel, to the top of the guitar. It'll happen quickly.

Just make sure you do it evenly on both sides, because this technique can be used to tilt the neck to the left or right, as well as making it sit down. Check often to make sure you're still straight down the middle of the guitar. If you find that angle changing, sand the proper side to correct it.

Here's the video where John explains scribe sanding at about 6 minutes and 20 seconds. He shows it by pulling to the front of the guitar; I pull to the back, because the fretboard is attached:

https://youtu.be/mokxzeYOd_0
BTW, your neck is looking GREAT! Good job.
Diane Kauffmann
Country Roads Guitars
countryroadsguitars@gmail.com
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