neck billet resaw options

[rstbkt]

First question from a new member. Building from scratch. My post in the intro may explain some things.

I have a billet of maple that I want to build my neck from. I have a plan that if I cut it in half then resaw the two halves I will wind up with 4 neck blanks that will be about 1 1/2 thick 4 wide but only 25 1/2 inches long. I plan on laminating The neck and adding a couple of layers of different laminate on the front and back of the headstock. I have other pieces of maple that have really close to matching grain because they are from the same spices of maple.

If I take another piece of maple for the headstock laminate it the same way as the neck and cut one side of the Scarf joint and then cut the other side of the scarf joint on the long piece. That will give me one block from the end for part of the stacked heel.That will put the stack for the heel right around 3 inches The rest of the heel cap could either be a section from the headstock and match closely or another species of one of the woods used in the laminate.

Question: Does this sound like a road to failure or a trip to the ugly tree. I am open to any suggestion. I could just turn out two 38 inch blanks but I would wind up with a 17 inch chunk of wood with little chance to use it.

I could also quarter it into 4 pieces 1 1/2 thick and 2 wide 51 inches long and add an inch or so of laminate wood between that when its cut in half. but the first way will give me an oppourtunity for solid necks if I desire as long as I add the headstock as in the first scenario.

Any Ideas? Any input is welcome.

[Dan Bombliss]

I may misunderstand your dimensions, but I'm picturing (52")? long, 4.5" (tall) 1.5" (wide).

Have you ever seen how 1 piece acoustic necks are laid out? With the template of the neck. You can interlock 2 neck templates with each other, to cut down on waste.

What I'm imagining is potentially laying out these templates on the 4.5" tall side, and that way you don't ahve to mess with a scarf joint, and you don't have to mess with stacked heel. Just have to glue 2 narrow neck shaped pieces together to get the 3" wide that you need. When I do multiple piece necks, width wise, I like to add a laminate in the middle, to make it a 3 or 5 piece neck. I like seems to look diliberate, and that also gives you extra width.

Anyhow if that makes any sense, see how those line up. Even if it came down to wasting 17" on the end, that's got to be easier to swallow than the extra work in scarf joint/stacked heel. Plus the aesthetics have to count for something as well.

If what I'm saying works or make sense, you wouldn't resaw at all, you'd lay out the template and start cutting chunks out of that board.

-Dan

[rstbkt]

The billet is 4 inches wide 3 1/4 thick and 51 inches long. Ive seen one piece necks cut out like you suggested. I dont know if I could get them to lay out Right. I'll check it out. The grain would be qtr sawn or verticle in the neck if I cut it where the pieces are 4 wide and 1 1/2 thick. If I cut it like I think I'll have to for a one piece the grain will be horizontal in the neck. I mean cutting it where the neck come out 3 1/4 wide the grain will be.............oh heck how do I say this. If I cut the neck as a one piece it will be 3 1/4 wide an the grain would show from the side of the neck. Cutting it where it is 4 inch wide the grain will show on the back There has to be an approite term for that.

Edit:
I just looked and I can actually get 4 one piece necks out of it but the grain will be flat sawn. In other words the grain would be visible from the side. Not trying to say you don't know what flat sawn is I may not be useing the correct terminology. If I make a 4 or 5 piece neck with the center pieces having the grain running the opposite direction will this be strong enough?

[rstbkt]

Can anyone tell me if having the grain running like described in the previous post is a valid concern
JP

[Dan Bombliss]

Well I guess the confusion here is which surfaces are sawn which way? I'm looking at this that the 3 1/4" (wide) would be the edge. the 4" (tall) would be the face. It sounds like the dimensions you have make for decent necks.

I recommend cleaned up one of the ends of this board, to get a nice look at the grain orientation. You've got 3 options. Either slab cut (flat sawn) Quartered (radial) or rift (Which is the middle of the two, with the grain going kind of diagonally.

Regardless you should be able to make it work. If you were to have a neck template, I would be plotting this out on the 4" surface, meaning that would be the side of the neck, and the 3 1/4" surface would be the top side where the fingerboard would rest, ect.

If the grain is quartered, you've got a good neck billet. If it's slab cut, it's still usable as a perfectly good neck, there are plenty of companies and builders using slab cut necks. Just about every new fender I see has a slab cut maple neck. If it's rift, you probably won't want to use it as one piece. The thing with rift that would be a candidate for resawing down the middle, and flipping the pieces around to get the grains to kind of balance out and potential movement. Confusing sounding I know, I'm going to try to rough out a "drawing" of what I mean.

Adding laminates in the middle, for say a 5 piece neck, I believe helps strengthen the neck against twist. When it's one solid piece of wood, it's a little easier for that piece to move due to humidity loss or gain, but when it's multiple pieces, they can somewhat combat each other and cut down on the possibility of twist.

-Dan

[Dan Bombliss]

Ok, I have a VERY crude drawing (scribling) to show what I meant with rift sawn. The first diagram shows the grain orientation of rift, where it's in between quartered and slab. You would resaw that, and then flip it so the grains look like the third diagram. This would help cancel out the tendancies the pieces may have to twist.



-Dan

[rstbkt]

This is how it is.If I lay the wood on the ground and the side that is 4 inches wide is the part touching the ground, the grain is verticle. I call this qtr sawn. Cutting it to keep the grain in that orientation I would get neck billets that are 4 wide and 1 1/2 thick.
If I wanted to get one piece necks I would have to lay it on the ground with the 3 1/2 inch dimension touching. The grain would be horizontal in the neck. Which I would call flat sawn.
I will attempt a drawing also but don't count on it being as good as yours. LOL

[rstbkt]

This is as good as I can get.

Those are supposed to be one piece necks. The red is the orientation of the grain with the solid necks

[Dan Bombliss]

Where did you get the billet? And what do you know about how it's been stored, how long ago it was cut, ect?

I wouldn't be afraid of using a 1 piece slab cut neck, but I would be afraid to use an unstable neck, slab cut just making it worse.

I don't remember excactly off hand, but the difference in slab and quartered is movement rates. Slab cut wood moves more than quartered does and I'm going to guess at the rates because I don't remember.

Something like quartered piece of wood moves 2% side to side, expanding and contracting, and slab cut can move 10% side to side.

Length wise quartered moves little to none, and again slab moves a little more.

Other than that it's appearance. And as the movements rates is a big deal, it's not a big enough deal. People are still using, and loving slab cut pieces of wood for acoustic guitar back and sides every day. It works for necks, just like majority of new fenders have slab cut necks, no big deal..

Problem is, if the wood is unstable (Too much moisture, not aged enough, or alot of natural twist, ect) It's going to cause problems, regardless of grain orientation.

I think I would cut out a one piece slab cut neck, and see how it works out. With your billet those would be the easier to cut out, and easiest to build since there would be no seams. Plus, if it doesn't work out, you can always resaw that neck blank and laminate to for stability, or rip it into lengths and do the scarf joint anyhow, but with a laminated width neck.

Of course this all depends on how you feel about the aesthetics of a slab cut neck. If you can't stand the look, don't do it. ;)

-Dan

[rstbkt]

Thanks for all your help Dan. I e-maield the guy I got the wood from. I've bought a lot of wood from him and he knows that I wanted the wood for necks. He looked hard in his warehouse to get me a piece of maple that we both liked. Of course i only had pics to go on. I ran it over the table saw today to square it up a little and its pretty durn dry.

I think I'll give the one piece a try. I can get two off one end and if I don't like how it looks I still have enoug to do a stacked heel.

Once again, thanks

Edit: The maple was low temp Kiln dried 4 or 5 years ago. Stored in a weather tight but not controlled environment