Truss rod

[Zen]

Just finished building my first acoustic and so far so good despite lots of challenges during the build. Sounds amazing and looks great as well. My one big worry now is this: I have had to tighten the truss rod as far as possible to bring the neck back so that the intonation is reasonably good but even then the action is high. Dont get me wrong --the guitar plays well but I like a lower action . It bothers me that I had to adjust the truss rod so much on a new build and I am guessing that its not normal to have to do this ? A friend suggested I may have to take off the frets again and sand or level the fretboard ?
Could that be correct ? Would this be the solution or has anyone had this problem
I am also building a Martin Kit, but the guitar in question is not a kit and I built it from scratch so I want it to be the best it can be but I would hate to have to remove frets or fretboard again and was hoping there is a different solution ?

Thanks again to all
Rusty

[B. Howard]

The intonation & action height may be completely different issues, let's talk about the neck first. What type of truss rod? How much relief is currently in the neck? Was the fretboard straight when the neck was set?

[tippie53]

as Brian points out you need to check the relief and then you adjust the saddle. let us know the specs. If you don't know how to check relief that is easy. hold down the string on the 1st fret and the 13th this gives you a line from the 1st to the 12th at the 6th fret you want to see about .004 to .010 between the string and the fret
did you level the frets?

[Zen]

as Brian points out you need to check the relief and then you adjust the saddle. let us know the specs. If you don't know how to check relief that is easy. hold down the string on the 1st fret and the 13th this gives you a line from the 1st to the 12th at the 6th fret you want to see about .004 to .010 between the string and the fret
did you level the frets?

Thanks Brian and John

well heres the numbers as I see them. Keep in mind that my truss rod is pretty tight here. Its not the 2 way John but is cased in an aluminum type housing ? not sure the correct term for this truss rod
The neck and fingerboard were all checked for level and straightness etc before i glued them and the frets have all been done

I put a capo on the 1st and finger the 13th -low E- as Brian said and theres very little play at the 6th -in fact I couldnt measure it but the string moves slightly when I tap it

I took off the capo and measured as follows---all on low E string:

1 st fret--2/32 from bottom of string to top of fret
5th fret---3/32
12th-------5/32
14th-------5/32


So I then used stew macs slotted straight edge to check the fretboard
Theres a relief/gap starting at fret 5 of less than 1/32 but it runs up to around fret 9

So, even though the guitar is playing well as i said I would still like a lower action and obviously I am worried that i am riding on the truss rod

Any advice greatly appreciated guys and thanks again
Rusty

[darren]

what type of neck joint and how much saddle/bridge height do you have to work with?

[Ben-Had]

I took off the capo and measured as follows---all on low E string:

1 st fret--2/32 from bottom of string to top of fret
5th fret---3/32
12th-------5/32
14th-------5/32

If you have feeler gauges try to get your relief measurement between .004 and .010, then lower your nut slots over the first fret. You are at .0625 (6th string) and I shoot for .022. A good first time setup you can use is:

1st - .015
2nd - .015
3rd - .018
4th - .020
5th - .022
6th - .025

That should lower your action significantly at the 12th. After you have lowered the strings over the 1st fret re-measure at the 12th. If you have enough saddle height for each 1/64th you'd like to lower the strings you have to take off 1/32 on the saddle bottom. You want to have a good break angle on your strings over the top of the saddle into the hole.

[tippie53]

I think your neck relief is more the issue. Did you true the neck and fretboard before you fretted it? It seems your relief is not what is should be.
Also did you dress the frets at all yet?

[Zen]

what type of neck joint and how much saddle/bridge height do you have to work with?

Its a bolt on neck Darren ? I did take the saddle down a little initially but I'd say theres enough to play with-- also a little to play with at the nut. But its the fact that I have had to use the truss rod already that bothers me I think, Should i start again and loosen off the truss rod and see whats what ?
Whats your thoughts on this ?
Thanks
Rusty

[Zen]

I think your neck relief is more the issue. Did you true the neck and fretboard before you fretted it? It seems your relief is not what is should be.
Also did you dress the frets at all yet?

Hi John, Yes I did true the neck and fretboard and all seemed fine. Its a cocobolo fretboard and was a little bowed after fretting but nothing serious. After I glued it on all seemed ok
The relief does not seem right as you correctly mentioned. As for dressing the frets--I did a little dressing at the time but theres no buzzing so I thought all should be ok. What bothers me is the fact I had to use the truss rod straight away to bring the neck into a playable zone so soon after building the guitar. I always understood -rightly or wrongly- that the truss rod was there as a back up plan further down the road or after a few years of playing but correct me if I'm wrong
Rusty

[B. Howard]

I also think the relief is the first issue. You may get an electric with extra light strings to play with a fretboard that flat but I think an acoustic needs some relief. I find a relief of .008"-.012" allows me to get the lowest action providing the extension that is glued to the body is on the correct plane. Truss rod adjustment is required on almost all guitars, new or old. It is usually the first thing I set when I set up a guitar, followed by the nut and finally the saddle.