PRS solid body kits

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cooltouch
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:33 am
Location: Houston, Texas

PRS solid body kits

Post by cooltouch »

I've built guitars from planks of wood, but I've never built a guitar from a kit, nor have I ever built an electric, so this project will be a new experience for me, and hopefully a relatively easy one.

I'm interested in a PRS-style solid body, mostly for what you might consider a trivial reason -- the distance between the bridge pickup and the bridge. With the PRS kits I've seen there is usually a generous distance there. I need somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" -- a dimension that is rather tight on many guitars. In fact, of the six solid body guitars I own, only two -- both Fenders -- are the only ones with sufficient clearance in this area.

So why do I need this clearance? So I can mount my GK-2a Roland Guitar Synthesizer pickup there. Now, I know I can buy a Roland-ready Strat, and I'd love to own one but I can't afford it, and I know I can buy the Roland pickup kits that can be installed in a guitar. But why should I go to that expense when I already own the GK-2a? Anyway, the reason why I don't continue to use the pickup on my Fenders is simple: I want to be able to keep my Strat in its case when it's not in use, which I can't do when the pickup is attached. It's a special instrument -- I bought it as a graduation present for myself in 1996 and it is a 50th Anniversary edition American Standard, still in as-new condition, and I want to keep it that way. The other Fender, I'm going to be selling real soon, so I can't count on it.

So anyway, back to the PRS kits. I've found several different ones on the 'net, but so far I've found only one that has the features I prefer, which is a rigid tailpiece/bridge and a 24-fret neck. This one is offered by Ed Roman Guitars. I don't know anything about ERG, and for that matter, I don't know if there might be others who offer a similar kit. But I figured that, if anybody should know, somebody here should.

So that's it really. Anybody have any experience with ERG? Kit quality, fit and finish, quality of components, etc.? Or is there someone else who's selling a set-neck/rigid tailpiece PRS with a 24-fret neck that I haven't found yet?

Thanks in advance for any help you could provide.
Best,
Michael

Live to Play, Play to Live
B. Howard
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Re: PRS solid body kits

Post by B. Howard »

Can't speak for ERG these days as Ed passed a bit ago and I have no idea who is doing what out there, but they were a good source for replacement necks and quite knowledgeable about collectable electrics that were not strats or LP's.
You never know what you are capable of until you actually try....

Brian Howard
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cooltouch
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:33 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: PRS solid body kits

Post by cooltouch »

Thanks for the feedback, Brian. Every bit helps. So I went back to Ed Roman Guitars website and browsed around some, read a few of the articles there, and I'm actually impressed. Learned something, too. According to Ed, who apparently had done a fair amount of research on the subject, a properly done bolt-on or bolt-in neck has better tone transference and sustain than a good set neck. He claims that the glue joint itself is a point of sustain loss. Hmmm . . . as a builder, I wonder about this. And as a player, I think back to the Gibsons I've owned -- and own currently -- and, to me at least, one of the properties of a good Gibson has always been great sustain and tone. But I also own a Strat and a Kramer Focus 1000, both of which also have great sustain and tone. I dunno, I reckon I'm guilty of the mindset that Ed discusses -- associating the whole bolt-neck concept with the cheapo imports of the 60s and 70s, and I guess I shouldn't do that.

Turns out that Ed Roman's PRS kit is available as either a set or bolt-on neck, with the latter being the standard. So now I'm thinking that maybe I should just take him at his word and go with the bolt-neck version. What do you think?

His PRS kit is moderately priced at $239. More expensive than most of the other kits I see that range in price from about $160 to $200. But you get what you pay for. Plus he offers a wide variety of options, which can quickly bump the price of the kit to over $400. I'm thinking I might want to go with one of the pickup upgrade options, but hopefully the quality of the rest of the kit's components is such that upgrades aren't really necessary. But then I remind myself that I don't really care about what the guitar's pickups are gonna sound like cuz I want this guitar to be a platform for my GK-2a Roland pickup. But then I remind myself that I'll probably wish I had upgraded the pickups. Hrm . . . Well, I can always do that later. I remind myself . . .

I suspect I'm not gonna find a better PRS kit than Ed Roman's. So once I've moved a bit of my current inventory out of here, I'll be ordering his PRS kit, it looks like.
Best,
Michael

Live to Play, Play to Live
B. Howard
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Re: PRS solid body kits

Post by B. Howard »

I will preface with the fact I am a set neck "snob". That said, I do have owned some wonderful bolt on's, but my preference is always for the set neck. I feel there is more tangible quality involved. As far as Ed's claims, I think there are other factors that play a bigger role than the type of joint. I think wood density plays a major role in sustain and overall tonal qualities with the neck playing a larger part in the sustain and the body more so with the color or tone. Case in point, most bolt on necks are Maple while most set necks are Mahogany, typically Honduran. Hard maple generally has an average weight of 43 PCF and is fairly consistent. Honduran Mahogany is far less consistent and can range from 29-43 PCF. I believe that denser woods in the neck yield better sustain and that would account for a lot of what Ed was seeing. Placing extra weight on the headstock will generally increase sustain, My brother used to drill holes in his headstocks and carefully fill them with molten lead to improve sustain, and it sure seemed to work.

Good luck with your project and keep us posted on your progress.
You never know what you are capable of until you actually try....

Brian Howard
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cooltouch
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:33 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: PRS solid body kits

Post by cooltouch »

Hey Brian, thanks for your reply. Sorry it's taken so long to respond -- I've gotten caught up with other matters and haven't been checking into the forums I subscribe to the way I should. Interesting observations of yours.

What is PCF? "pounds [per] cubic foot"? So, 43 PCF is 43 pounds per cubic foot?

You know, there are different varieties of maple too -- mostly American and European species. The European (where fiddleback comes from) is supposedly softer than the American (where flame, quilted or curly comes from), and I'll wager their densities vary as well.

As for Honduran mahogany, one of the big problems with it now is supply because of its being bumped up on the CITES list. A lot of folks are using African mahogany now, which is not a "true" mahogany, according to some definitions, but is, according to others. All mahoganies are members of the family Meliaceae, but the American mahoganies are of the genus Swietenia, whereas the African mahoganies are of the genus Khaya. And I guess, the pickier folks reject the genus Khaya because it isn't the same as what they're used to. Having said all that, though, if you put American and African together, side by side, it's pretty tough to tell the difference just from looks alone. As for densities, not only do the American mahoganies have widely varied densities, but so do the African ones, and it is apparently due to the environments in which they are grown. Makes sense to me. I'll wager that the mahoganies that are grown in dryer cooler climates are denser than those that are grown in the wetter warmer ones.

There is no reason why neck woods need to be limited to these two popular types, though. I have built a number of classical guitars using Spanish cedar for the neck wood. It looks a lot like mahogany, is softer and lighter, but is plenty rigid enough for classical necks. One popular addition that many classical builders use is a strip of ebony as a reinforcement down the centerline of the neck, which I also do, and which makes for a very rigid neck. So when the ebony fingerboard is glued to the neck, it and the ebony reinforcement strip form a cross-sectional "T" shape. No truss rod required. But then again, we're talking nylon strings. Even so, I own a classical that was built in 1982, which has a Spanish cedar neck (and no ebony reinforcement strip), and which has been under constant string tension for over 30 years. The neck is still dead-flat straight, although the box is now beginning to show signs of folding in on itself. A pity. So even though it's lightweight, I think that Spanish cedar would work with a steel-string guitar as long as a truss-rod were also used. Sustain properties? I've never done a comparison, but I've never had any complaints, either.

Even so, there are other woods. I know one guy who has built guitars using walnut as neck wood, and I've heard of others using cherry and even Indian rosewood. Although I'd imagine with the latter, the guitars would be somewhat headstock-heavy.

Is density the best indicator of sustain, I wonder? Seems to me that the cellular structure of the wood may also play a role, independent of density. I wonder if anyone has studied this? You may have heard of the Internet Forum "Left Brain Luthiers"? They have a Yahoo group, and they get off on this sort of stuff. Chances are, if anybody has conducted research along these lines, they'd know about it.

One aspect of Ed Roman's comments that I question is his assertion that the glue joint causes sustain loss. Maybe he tested guitars that had sloppy glue joints. And yes, it's entirely possible that factory-assembled Gibsons and others might have sloppy glue joints. It is pretty well known amongst woodworkers that a good wood glue is best used very sparingly and the pieces being glued together should be roughened somewhat at the contact patch and should be clamped. Wood glue's job is to bind the wood fibers together, not to be the bond itself. Clamping helps the roughened patches of wood fibers to intertwine with each other. A properly glued joint will be stronger than the surrounding wood. So it seems to me that there should be essentially no acoustic transmission loss across a properly glued joint.

Still, it's hard to question the fact that metal-to-metal contact also provides for superior acoustic transference.

Aw heck, I dunno anymore. I reckon if done right, either one will sound just fine. Like you, I've always preferred the set neck, so I might just give in to my prejudices.

Still no takers on the gear I have for sale, so I haven't bought a kit yet. I'll let y'all know when that happy day arrives.
Best,
Michael

Live to Play, Play to Live
B. Howard
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Re: PRS solid body kits

Post by B. Howard »

PCF is pounds per cubic foot. It's easier for most to grasp than specific gravity.

IMHE of all these years making cabinets, furniture and now guitars I have always considered any timber from a member Meliaceae or "Mahogany' family of trees to be a "true" or "genuine" mahogany as opposed to "false" mahogany such as Luan, Santos Mahogany, Meranti and others. I have also learned to be specific when buying lumber and to order it by exact species so as to be no confusion. This is important when purchasing a thousand BDF at a time.

The Mahogany family includes not only Sweitenia macrophylla ( Honduran, Big leaf, American or whatever you may know it by) and Khaya spp. ( African, a group of about 4 intermingled species) but also Entandrophragma cylindricum ( Sapele) and Cedrela odorata ( Spanish Cedar) and other less known trees.

There are many species of American maples but they are sold basically under two headings, Hard and Soft. Hard being exclusively Acer saccharium, Sugar Maple and everything else being soft. The soft divided into White and Brown solely based on color and with no reference to species.This is because Maple is prone to staining from insects and fungi. I like Red maple for my bridge plates and Silver Maple for my bindings and must always go a pick them out myself. Most lumber retailers can't even tell the difference. Of course I like Hard Maple for the centers of my 7 pc necks.

The first guitar necks I ever made were made of Cherry and I personally think walnut would make a nice neck as well, just don't think most players will want a cherry or walnut neck.

Enough Botany and back to sustain. I don't know how scientific Ed's tests were. They could just be his opinions based on his experience as I expressed mine about density. As to the glue thing, well John, myself and some others are slowly going about putting some of that to some scientific testing that will be looking at tonal transfer and attack, sustain and decay characteristics of different types of glues.
You never know what you are capable of until you actually try....

Brian Howard
www.brianhowardguitars.com
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Custom finishing services

Brian howard's guitar building & repair blog
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Dave Sayers
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Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:19 am

better to buy quality

Post by Dave Sayers »

I bought a cheaper electric kit just to try out building one. it was pretty good but there were a couple of issues. The routing for the neck and pickups wasn't that good. It needed work to make the fit properly. In the end I decided the whole thing was a kit mass produced for the low end manufacturers market.

It came with electrics, and those were also OK but low end. For £60 ($60) I got what I wanted, a guitar I could make and take apart without thinking I'd spent too much. I could play with the electrics and the neck. In the end I used it to see what a veneer finish would look like on the front. It looks pretty good but really needed to be properly sealed and glossed to look its best. The veneer also needs to be set inside a black binding for best effect.

Anyway, I'd go with the more expensive kits in future, and look them over very carefully when they arrive. Then if I wasn't happy I'd get in touch with the seller before I did anything else. I'm particularly referring to the neck joint fit and angle.

Inceidentally Ed Roman also recommended a neck through body build for the best sustain of all. Good luck.
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