Unserviced kit vs scratch build

[tippie53]

Gee I got to play 18 holes in the last 2 years . Maybe I need a road trip

[ixamnis]

This thread brings up an interesting point that I have pondered since I've started building. Let me say that, even though I haven't posted much, here, I've learned A LOT from this forum.

To me, an unserviced "kit" is simply a scratchbuilt guitar, with all the "stuff" on one convenient order. There is little difference, except that you aren't personally selecting the woods used. A serviced kit is still "building" a guitar, but with some of the work being done by others.

The question is this.... Is there any difference between buying a neck that's already shaped (for example) versus having a CNC machine do the shaping for you? I know (from this, as well as other, forums) that a lot of luthiers make use of CNC technology, modern power tools and sometimes even (gasp!) assistants to do some of the work that used to be done by hand. In my opinion, there is no REAL difference between using a CNC machine to shape a neck and ordering one pre-shaped in a kit. The same can be said of scratch building a guitar but using a rosette that's already been made. How about using a binding machine, versus routing the binding by hand.

The key for me is knowing the process and choosing to do what you want to do yourself. For right now (as an example) I have no interest in hand shaping a neck. Someday, I plan on doing that, just so that I have the experience and can say that I've done it. But I know there are luthiers who are selling guitars for thousands of dollars that do not shape their own necks by hand. That doesn't make their guitars worth less, and it doesn't make then any less a luthier.

I don't think any builder should feel that their final result has been "cheapened" in any way, or that they are any less a "luthier" by building from a kit. Maybe I'll feel differently after I've had a few guitars under my belt, but for now, just enjoy the process.

[Eddie]

I have wondered about this as well. How much do you have to do to say that an item is handmade? I have recently been reading a lot to try to figure it out. Here are some of the major points.

There is a book by David Pye, the Art and Nature of Workmanship, that addresses this. It is a short book but deep. I am still trying to completely absorb it. He breaks things down on a scale with workmanship of certainty on one end and workmanship of risk on the other. I.e., the more tools and the more sophisticated tools you use the more you approach the workmanship of certainty end. Meaning it is harder and harder to screw up but less skill you need to make something. The fewer and less sophisticated tools you use the more you approach the workmanship of risk end. Meaning more depends on your skill than the tool and it is easier to screw up. There seems to be no clear line where an item becomes hand made. The closer you get to the workmanship of certainty end the less variation there is in the product. Things that come out of a factory are all just alike. Some factorys produce high end items and some low end but from a given factory they are virtually identical.

By working on the workmanship of risk end there is more chance to screw up but also a good chance, depending on skill, to make a masterpiece. A masterpiece will not come from a factory.

Ervin Somogyi, in his recent book, the Responsive Guitar, makes a good case for why the craftsman is important. Every piece of wood is different. Experience tells the craftsman how much to thin the top or back or braces and where to place the braces. There is no place for that in a factory that produces thousands of guitars; no time to take into account the individual differences in the wood and make minors adjustments. There will be some really good Martins and Gibsons etc but the masterpieces will be made by the craftsman.

I get more satisfaction in doing as much as I can by hand but in defense of those guys farming out a portion of the work I would say "if" they are doing the things that make a great sounding guitar themselves based on their own skills and experience then they should be allowed to command that much for their work. I can't say whether the do or should say that the guitar is handmade.

Bottom line is how good does the guitar sound, then how good does it look. Factories are getting better and better. That is why it is getting harder and harder to make a living as a craftsman. Is it bad for the craftsman to farm out those things that don't effect the sound? I really can't say. They are just moving down the scale toward factory builds; taking less risk. As long as they are honest about what they do I don't have a problem with it.

For most of us this will always be a really satisfying hobby. For those who develop the skills I believe there are a lot people who are willing to pay more for a top quality handmade guitar, enough for the real craftsman to make a living.

And that is my soap box...
Eddie

[JJDonohue]

BTW...if any of you guys are ever passing through Indiana...

Sounds tempting. I'm in Massachusetts but go back to the South Bend / Mishawaka area for a family reunion every couple of years. Where Winona is Lake?

Winona Lake is a "suburb" of Warsaw, IN

South on 31...East on 30...about 45 miles from South Bend...Go Irish!

[Ken Hundley]

You're a good 2 hours from me, but I've driven further for a round of golf!